Anyone else been dissapointed by S30V?

I've been using S30V for 18 months. I have definitely noticed the lack of resharpening this stuff needs, even dragged over angle iron, and dirt encrusted pallets. None of my previous 4XX stainless knives even come close. It's a utility grind, so I just touch it up on some crock sticks. I've done that less than a dozen times.

Can the average user tell the difference between steels? Yes, if they use one long enough, rather than tossing their new toy in a box because the next "lookitwhatIgot" catches their eye.

Not all knives in S30V have the best edge geometry to get hair popping sharp. I've certainly been impressed by Buck's Mayo TNT for that, but I would never expect or even bother to get a SnG that sharp. You have to consider the design application in total to understand it's best attributes.

A knife steel can be chosen for a different quality than just being sharp enough to splice DNA. S30V does a great job if the user does theirs.
 
Something that's just popped into my mind is how sometimes taking the factory edge back some to get into "unworked" metal helps.

I may try that...I've taken the shoulder from the primary bevel down a little. (With the 30' sharpmakers...so not much) Other than that it's still stock geometry...and I intend to leave it as close to it as possible.
 
I bet there's nobody here who could tell the difference, through normal use, between, say VG-10, S30V and.. oh.. 440C without looking at what's stamped on the blade.

Experiment:

I bet if we gave anyone here 3 plain identical blades, that are made out of those different materials, the only marking being a code that would allow the experimenter to know what blade is what, that the tester would not be able to tell the difference after 2 weeks' worth of use, sharpening, etc.

:thumbup:

Well I'm sure you THINK you can tell. How can you prove that?

This challenge would allow y'all "experts" to show that there really is a noticeable difference in the steels for standard applications like cutting, sharpening, whatever. Whereas I believe the differences are so slight as to be un-noticeable. I believe it's all marketing hype.

Sure you could. S30V would stay the sharpest after a few weeks of frequent cutting tasks, VG10 would be second sharpest, and and the 440C would be getting kind of dull.

The whole "Challenge to you bourgeois connoisseurs of steel" thing is kind of ridiculous. The main difference between S30V, VG10, and 440C is that VG10 holds its' edge a little longer, and S30V holds its' edge the longest.

Again, if the differences are too small for you to tell, good on you. You'll save a lot of money that way.
 
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Sure you could. S30V would stay the sharpest after a few weeks of frequent cutting tasks, VG10 would be second sharpest, and and the 440C would be getting kind of dull.

The whole "Challenge to you bourgeois connoisseurs of steel" thing is kind of ridiculous. The main difference between S30V, VG10, and 440C is that VG10 holds its' edge a little longer, and S30V holds its' edge the longest.

Again, if the differences are too small for you to tell, good on you. You'll save a lot of money that way.
S30V would stay the sharpest after a few weeks of frequent cutting tasks, VG10 would be second sharpest, and and the 440C would be getting kind of dull.

What kind of materials are you cutting with your knives? Butter perhaps? My Native in S30V gets extremelly dull after 2 days in the woods, and it takes another half a day on the Sharpmaker to bring it back close to the factory sharpness (vaguely close). And I hardly abuse my knives, especially not my folding knives. Not to mention it will easily chip and roll after cutting beer cans. Magic steel? My ass. Wear resistant? Like a motherf*cker! Worth the burden to sharpen/reprofiling and costs? Hell no! Give me good old high-carbon steel any day of the week.
 
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What kind of materials are you cutting with your knives? Butter perhaps? My Native in S30V gets extremelly dull after 2 days in the woods, and it takes another half a day on the Sharpmaker to bring it back close to the factory sharpness (vaguely close). And I hardly abuse my knives, especially not my folding knives. Not to mention it will easily chip and roll after cutting beer cans. Magic steel? My ass. Wear resistant? Like a motherf*cker! Worth the burden to sharpen/reprofiling and costs? Hell no! Give me good old high-carbon steel any day of the week.

I tested CPM S30V but on Spyderco Military on manila rope making 800 cuts.

I spend about 10 minutes to restore sharpness and about 1 hour to put new edge. But I use DMT and results are better then what Spyderco may offer so far.

Thanks, Vassili.

I am disappointed with CPM S30V because it take place of CPM S60V which is better then CPM S30V, but it is still top quality steel and better then many.
 
Well I'm sure you THINK you can tell. How can you prove that?

This challenge would allow y'all "experts" to show that there really is a noticeable difference in the steels for standard applications like cutting, sharpening, whatever. Whereas I believe the differences are so slight as to be un-noticeable. I believe it's all marketing hype.

I need only point to posts 41 and 43 of this thread as more evidence that your premise is incorrect. Joe Talmadge concurs that there is a difference in the performance of the alloys. You might recognize Joe as the author of the Steel FAQ sticky on the maintenance forum. He is well known in the knife industry. A big gun, if you will pardon the phrase.

Too many reliable sources have documented the edge retention differences of different steels. It is not all hype.

I agree with enderwiggin. If your usages and sharpening habits are such that you do not perceive the differences in edge retention of different steel alloys, all the better for you. Steels with higher edge retention are harder to form and machine, causing knives made from them to be more expensive. You can save money by buying knives made from lower performance steels, because you don't need the extra performance. Nothing wrong with that.
 
I'd like to launch a personal attack against one of you little wanna-be ninja crotch scum pinhead auto erotic jizz stains but that would insinuate that I give a flying Frank's Hotdog about what you think. S30V will open up a catfish like Jager Bombs open up a sophomore's jeans. I'm not going to fight about it I just wanted to backhand you sniveling steel snobs and hear you squeal. I'm gonna go strop my carbon steel and put that 440A back in the drawer with the butter knives.

Moderator, no profanity, actual personal attacks or focused denigration just a well honed bad attitude.
 
The documentation demonstrating the qualities of one steel over another is there. But I maintain that the differences to most end users is mostly academic.

The difficulty for the average knife nut to reproduce those results leads to almost exclusive use of (often unhelpful) anecdotal evidence. It's hard enough to compare two different knives with same geometries, let alone two completely different models.

Thus, don't attribute certain qualities to a particular steel that can more easily be explained by differences in plain old dumb hardness and geometry. The default position should be skepticism over claims of any particular qualities.
 
I'd like to launch a personal attack against one of you little wanna-be ninja crotch scum pinhead auto erotic jizz stains but that would insinuate that I give a flying Frank's Hotdog about what you think. S30V will open up a catfish like Jager Bombs open up a sophomores jeans. I'm not going to fight about it I just wanted to backhand you sniveling steel snobs and hear you squeal. I'm gonna go strop my carbon steel and put that 440A back in the drawer with the butter knives.

Moderator, no profanity, actual personal attacks or focused denigration just a well honed bad attitude.

Heh. I saw your sig and read it as "What part of, 'shall not be unhinged.' don't you understand?"
 
Heh. I saw your sig and read it as "What part of, 'shall not be unhinged.' don't you understand?"
Don't bother me before my medication kicks in...
 
The documentation demonstrating the qualities of one steel over another is there. But I maintain that the differences to most end users is mostly academic.

The difficulty for the average knife nut to reproduce those results leads to almost exclusive use of (often unhelpful) anecdotal evidence. It's hard enough to compare two different knives with same geometries, let alone two completely different models.

Thus, don't attribute certain qualities to a particular steel that can more easily be explained by differences in plain old dumb hardness and geometry. The default position should be skepticism over claims of any particular qualities.

I always get the hardness of my blades tested prior to doing edge retention comparisons. I take hardness differences into consideration when running my tests, and I use the same edge angle for all blades I test. I test on manila rope, so blade profile is not a factor.

But I agree with you that some alloys are similar enough in performance that it is difficult to tell the difference in actual use, even though they perform differently in cutting tests. I have a hard time differentiating between N690, 154CM, and VG10 in my EDC use. However, I can tell the difference between any one of them and AUS8 or 420HC or 440A in daily use situations.
 
What kind of materials are you cutting with your knives? Butter perhaps? My Native in S30V gets extremelly dull after 2 days in the woods, and it takes another half a day on the Sharpmaker to bring it back close to the factory sharpness (vaguely close). And I hardly abuse my knives, especially not my folding knives. Not to mention it will easily chip and roll after cutting beer cans. Magic steel? My ass. Wear resistant? Like a motherf*cker! Worth the burden to sharpen/reprofiling and costs? Hell no! Give me good old high-carbon steel any day of the week.

This has been my experience. I couldn't wait till I got my new Native, my first s30v blade, home and test it against some of my other blades. I used the Native straight from the box with the factory hair shaving edge. I began cutting up old flyer magazines which were somewhere around 50 to 75 pages thick cutting them into strips. I tested the Native against a Benchmade made of 154cm which was equally sharp. I would make one slice with the Native, the next with the Bencmade so as to be fair in making sure each was cutting the same type of paper. Somewhere around the 10th magazine I stopped and tested their edges. BIG SUPRISE! The Native would no longer shave hair and the Benchmade was still slightly picking at the hair. It had lost some of its edge but was definatly still sharper than the Native. They both were still cutting but in my test the 154cm outperformed s30v. Now how is this possible? Maybe the "experts" can explain. I would like to know. Anyway, in my "true life lessons learned test" s30v sure didn't stand up its hype! Oh well live and learn! ,,,VWB.

PS- I regretted doing the test when I began to attempt to resharpen the s30v blade! The 154cm sharpened right up without much trouble as it always does for me!
 
Well I'm sure you THINK you can tell. How can you prove that?

This challenge would allow y'all "experts" to show that there really is a noticeable difference in the steels for standard applications like cutting, sharpening, whatever. Whereas I believe the differences are so slight as to be un-noticeable. I believe it's all marketing hype.

Look at my UKPK review again.

http://raum.10gbfreehost.com/Articles/UKPK.html

Note where I pounded all the knives into steel cored cable to observe how they failed at the edge and to what degree.

Compare the Mule (51200) to the others.

Is the difference in steel performance in this case negligible, or hype?

Look at H1. It doesn't rust. While some of the 420 and 440 series steels have good corrosion resistance, H1 is far superior.

If toughness and corrosion resistance can clearly be better or worse between different blade steels, why is there any reason to think edge holding would be any different?

If all you use a knife for is to open mail and cut your fingernails, you probably won't notice the edge holding difference. However, if you break down boxes all day, do renovation work, cut drywall, butcher meat for a living, use your knife for yard work or just find a lot of things to cut with your EDC each day, the difference will be more noticeable.

...I go to the extreme when I sharpen a knife and wont stop until I reach a super hair poping edge! Maybe s30v cant take take this type of edge...

I takes longer to grind than VG10 and others but it should reach that level of sharpness just the same. How thick is the edge on the S30V knife you are using?

This has been my experience. I couldn't wait till I got my new Native, my first s30v blade, home and test it against some of my other blades. I used the Native straight from the box with the factory hair shaving edge. I began cutting up old flyer magazines which were somewhere around 50 to 75 pages thick cutting them into strips. I tested the Native against a Benchmade made of 154cm which was equally sharp. I would make one slice with the Native, the next with the Bencmade so as to be fair in making sure each was cutting the same type of paper. Somewhere around the 10th magazine I stopped and tested their edges. BIG SUPRISE! The Native would no longer shave hair and the Benchmade was still slightly picking at the hair. It had lost some of its edge but was definatly still sharper than the Native. They both were still cutting but in my test the 154cm outperformed s30v. Now how is this possible? Maybe the "experts" can explain. I would like to know. Anyway, in my "true life lessons learned test" s30v sure didn't stand up its hype! Oh well live and learn! ,,,VWB.

PS- I regretted doing the test when I began to attempt to resharpen the s30v blade! The 154cm sharpened right up without much trouble as it always does for me!

Was the benchmade factory edge or self honed? How did you test the edges to conclude they were equally sharp? What types of edge finish did each knife have? How do the geometries of the two knives compare? Were you restricting cutting to a specified portion of the edge or the whole blade or whichever part you happened to use on a given cut? Did you do more than one trial? Did you do any other tests to compare your results to this test against?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just pointing out that such a test isn't very conclusive without knowing more of the variables, at least.

To everyone who says S30V is hard to sharpen, how often do you sharpen your knives? Do you sharpen when they stop popping hair, when they no longer scrape hair, when they no longer cut warm butter?
 
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What kind of materials are you cutting with your knives? Butter perhaps? My Native in S30V gets extremelly dull after 2 days in the woods, and it takes another half a day on the Sharpmaker to bring it back close to the factory sharpness (vaguely close). And I hardly abuse my knives, especially not my folding knives. Not to mention it will easily chip and roll after cutting beer cans. Magic steel? My ass. Wear resistant? Like a motherf*cker! Worth the burden to sharpen/reprofiling and costs? Hell no! Give me good old high-carbon steel any day of the week.

If you're dulling your native after 2 days of use, why are you asking me what I'm cutting?
 
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