Anyone else, think that an MS Stamp on a Brut de Forge blade...

[jjtjr]

Peter,

According to what I read on the ABS JS testing link:

2. No etched or "primitive" finishes are desired. You are being tested for your ability to satisfactorily finish the surfaces of your knives. Hand-rubbed or correctly buffed finishes are satisfactory.

I do not know if that also applies to MS Test knives.

Jim

 

[RogerP]

I don't know the answer to that question, Peter, but I'm not sure what it would reveal. Journeymen applicants are NOT allowed to submit damascus blades for their test, yet many JS makers produce terrific damascus blades. Master applicants MUST submit a quillion dagger, yet for many, that is the last such piece they ever make. The test criteria for JS and MS don't constrain that maker's future body of work. They apply only to those 5 submitted knives.

I'm not sure what Dan Winkler's 5 test knives looked like, but I'm sure glad he didn’t stick to the strict requirements of the test (if indeed they would have prohibited a textured finish) going forward.

 

[ptgdvc]

Thanks Jim.

It is clear that submitting one for your JS test is tantamount to asking to fail the test.

I think it is still an open question, as regards the MS test.

 

[LX_Emergency]

Anyone else, think that an MS Stamp on a Brut de Forge blade...
...is a little bit out of place?

No, the MS (or JS) stamp is an indication of ABILITY to produce a clean blade. Whether or not a clean blade is desireable is a completely different debate, one of taste, not skill.

All the stamp shows is that the maker could live up to the ABS testing standards when it counted. It means nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Rick Marchand]

I think we've touched on everything...

ABS ranking is the man not the knife.
The mark is appropriate on any knife forged by the maker.
The Monkey Mobile's beauty is relative to the age of the beholder.

I am an ABS member because I want to support the organization. At the moment, I only have a slight interest in testing... and that is mainly to make Wally H. happy... lol. But you can be damn sure I'll stamp every blade I forge(and maybe even some you'll never know I didn't.)

 

[stezann]

I respect the ABS because i love knives and i know they spend their efforts to perpetuate and promote the quality of the craft.
It represents not the ultimate word on knives quality tough, neither the word of collectors does. I have seen MS knives that are simply ugly, no matter their finishes.
So i welcome brute de forge together with other finishes when the knife is beautiful, and if the MS stamp is over there i give my +1 to the ABS, even if the credit is due to the maker!

 

[james terrio]

Anyone else, think that an MS Stamp on a Brut de Forge blade... ...is a little bit out of place?
Perhaps I am alone, but I think it runs contrary to the whole notion of Master Smith quality work.

Nope! When I see someone has earned a Journeyman or MasterSmith stamp (the ABS doesn't just give those things away ), it gives me confidence that they know what they're doing with steel, HT, construction and general design elements.

No matter how plain or fancy, and even if they never leave a glass case, knives are meant for cutting things (otherwise it's not a knife, it's a sculpture). If a MS or JS wants to provide simple, "rustic", brut de forge or whatever knives either for aesthetic reasons or to offer some lower-cost blades, that doesn't take anything away from the underlying quality. If anything, it only highlights their prettier, more elaborate work even more.

I think that if anything, a JS or MS stamp on a brute de forge style knife says 'this look is intentional and this stamp is so you know I can also do really high end collector grade stuff if I want'.

:thumbup:

 

[Rick Marchand]

I am curious to know whether such a blade is allowed to be submitted for either a JS or MS test?

If allowed, has one ever been submitted? If not allowed, why not?

I have spoken to a few ABS judges in the past. My chosen style is hardly Journeyman Test approved. That said, I was told by two of six Master Smiths to include a heavily but tastefully forged piece in my "five".... ON THE CONDITION that the other four are spot on flawless to the ABS testing criteria.

They are not judging your ability to make a "good knife"... they are judging your "ability" to make a good knife. (if that makes sense)

The best way to do that is to have criteria that is clear to everyone and easily judged. If the Master Smith are trying to figure out how to judge your knife, it'll probably work against you. This statement is not meant to demean the ABS in any way but jumping through the hoops is the best way to prove your skill and pass the test.