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depends if you measure in fps, or mph. sorry, its late...er...early...
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Anyone into air rifles?
- Thread starter jeffreyliu838
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Penetration of a projectile is dependent on velocity (which is speed) and mass (weight) and you also have to factor in sectional density.
Which is the frontal area of the projectile in relation to it's weight.
An easy way to think of it is in how a nail (being long thin and pointed) drives into wood much easier than a ball bearing will.
That is why a long heavy small caliber bullet penetrates so well compared to a lighter one of the same caliber.
Speed and velocity are often used interchangeably.
Velocity has a direction component,
speed doesn't have to - but it can have a direction.
definition of Speed at Wikipedia
" Speed is measured in the same physical units of measurement as velocity, but does not contain the element of direction that velocity has. Speed is thus the magnitude component of velocity. "
In the case of airguns speed and velocity are supposed to be the SAME.
Speed/velocity of a pellet is important because too slow the pellet will drop too quickly - it is also an indication of total energy (often "power" is used).
However speed/velocity alone is somewhat meaningless - think of this silly comparison - a feather traveling at 44 fps (feet per second = 30mph) and a 2-ton truck at the same speed - the feather will probably do you no harm, whereas the truck will probably kill you.
The ability to knock down is dependent on total energy imparted to the target that's 1/2 (mass x velocity^2)
(^ is for squared).
Penetration is dependent on pressure - which is force per unit area - so the smaller the area the lower the force to penetrate.
However with the science of ballistics the ability of a pellet to stop a prey is not just penetration - think of a needle penetrating right through the thigh of a prey, it probably would hurt, but not stop it......
but dependent on impact, shock and the wound channel - this has had much study for regular firearms - but the important components are energy and momentum.
The Daisy 953 once again is UNDERpowerd for shooting at prey. Using lighter pellets will keep the velocity higher - but does nothing to better the energy.
The Winchester 1000B has energy/power to spare....
For those two airguns choose what you really want to do... then decide.
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Alright. I guess I'll let build quality decide. Which one is the better gun in your opinions?
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+ 1 ... Have now racked up over 40 years of use from a Diana break barrel air rifle made in the then West Germany.
Quality pays for itself and has the advantage of been accurate too.
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Still haven't decided yet. Does anyone know how the accuracy is on the Winchester 1000b? How is it to shoot?
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Thanks for the site. The Crosman 781 looks interesting (and had a good word from one of the posters!). The Gamo Big cat looks good too (there's a used one on Amazon going for 80 bucks). Anyone know anything about the Gamo Delta?
I'm leaning towards the Crosman 781 or the Gamo big cat right now.
Thanks.
I'm leaning towards the Crosman 781 or the Gamo big cat right now.
Thanks.
yes, well the Crosman 781 is spec'd at 405fps for .177 pellets - which means it's 2.37ft-lb energy this is obviously less powerful than even the Daisy 953 you considered before......
Between the Crosman 781 and the Daisy 953 - the Daisy is by far the better air-rifle - it is often used for competition - it is that accurate.
That's a good price for the Gamo Big Cat - it is also a "1,000fps" (with pellets) cheap air-rifle - so it's about 14.4ft-lb - which means it has power to spare for live prey - but being a springer it is likely to be relatively harsh shooting, and Gamo triggers are just so-so - however air-rifles with good triggers are mostly hundreds more .....
there is probably very little to choose between the Winchester 1000B you considered previously, and this one.
This is supposed to be a "youth" air-rifle - so likely to be smaller/shorter. It is rated at 525fps (= ~ 4ft-lb) - so it's a bit better than the Daisy 953 but not really enough to make it adequate for live prey.......
For strictly paper and cans plinking the Daisy 953 would be very good.
For any live prey please consider either the Winchester 1000B or the Gamo Big Cat.
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That's not the best and its not the worst. That is not a German Beenman, but a Chinese rifle badged with the beenman name. A relative has one of those and did put quite a few shots through it before it went (a critical part of the cocking system snapped). Accuracy was more than good enopugh for plinking, even with the included tip off scope. The trigger was ok.
I would spend a little bit more (maybe up your limit to $100) and buy a used Slavia 631. They are much more accurate and solid. Better overall quality too.
:thumbup:What, no love for the venerable American made Sheridan Blue Streak? ive got one in .20 caliber with Phillips peep sights that has nailed loads of backyard squirrels, rabbits and even a grouse or two. You can also get them modded up to about 900FPS. I would seriously consider mine for a stealth type survival weapon on small game:thumbup:--KV
The Sheriden's are nice air rifles. The price tag is why I didn't buy one. They often retail for $150 now.
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Just found out it's legal in California to hunt turkey with an air rifle of .20 caliber or greater. Sounds like a pretty stealthy way to hunt.
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My son has the Gamo Delta max does @ 640ft/s (light pellets). It is great for plinking in the yard and knocking down cans whilst standing to shoot. A little too powerful for a first airrifle but it has taught him alot.
I am trying to get some $ in to upgrade him to a Gamo shadow no.3 @ 700ft/s and his younger brother can take over the Deltamax.
We get only the more powerful Gamo or some chinese junk here. I bought the Deltamax in South Africa.
I love the .2 as it gets the advantage of weight, carry and flat trajectory. It is difficult to get here.
I am trying to get some $ in to upgrade him to a Gamo shadow no.3 @ 700ft/s and his younger brother can take over the Deltamax.
We get only the more powerful Gamo or some chinese junk here. I bought the Deltamax in South Africa.
I love the .2 as it gets the advantage of weight, carry and flat trajectory. It is difficult to get here.
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The Gamo line looks interesting. They have an undercocking model that I've been pretty tempted to acquire, though the RWS line looks good, too.
Gamo has models that are advertised to go 1,600 fps, and will actually do around 1,300 fps in the .177. That's pretty stout!
I've been wondering how flat the .20 and .22 pellets shoot. I'd like something with more punch, but don't want a pellet that drops so quickly it's hard to get on target at varying ranges. I guess if I get a .22 that does 900 fps it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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Have you looked into Co2 at all? Check out the Crosman web site @ http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crosman.com%2F&ei=qAqqSYv_MoiQngeg9uTrDw&usg=AFQjCNGpHWvDEXKqvze7qV4Kx-QM9PCudw&sig2=eifX1dOJq1dLfv8zjH60qA
You should be able to get a .22 cal carbine with a 18 inch barrel and a carbine stock for about 90 bucks. a little more than you were planning to spend but it is the same air gun I use and is a great can killer, and I have used it and it's bigger brother with the 24 inch barrel to take many rabbits and squirrels for the table.
You should be able to get a .22 cal carbine with a 18 inch barrel and a carbine stock for about 90 bucks. a little more than you were planning to spend but it is the same air gun I use and is a great can killer, and I have used it and it's bigger brother with the 24 inch barrel to take many rabbits and squirrels for the table.
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Yup, Chinese clone...
I had a gamo for plinking, but I found it too annoying to manually load each shot towards the middle of the barrel. If I would get an air rifle, I'd get a preloaded bolt gun.
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I used to have a 440 hunter by Gamo, using heavy pellets I achieved 100ft consistant accuracy. Rabbit it used to zip right through and kill. Guinefowl needed a direct chest shot or , especially with light pellets, would deflect off the bird. Rats it would zip through and kill. Rabbits meant for a topple and die, rats would dash and die or shoot up and trie and flee. With rats expiring in the farmer's curing tobbacco/ office/granary that was a definite downer so I took to using a silenced .22 HP rimfire and subsonics. I had wanted the Hunter in .22 but it was not legal in Zim without a licence and two rifles (air and rimfire) was extremely difficult.
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For what it is worth I just bought a Eurolux by BEC it looks like a Diana rifle by RWS.
Any ways I got it used at a gun store for 3 and shoots better then any gun I have owned. Not the smoothes but accurate.
Matt
Any ways I got it used at a gun store for 3 and shoots better then any gun I have owned. Not the smoothes but accurate.
Matt
If it's the BEC Eurolux Model 21 - it's a Chinese clone of the Diana 48/52
see thread on AirGunForum .
That's a powerful air-rifle 800fps in .22 (~17 ft-lb) or 1,000fps in .177 (~14.5 ft-lb) - so it would be fairly harsh to shoot - but once one gets used to the hold-sensitivity - it can be very accurate.
Most airguns are inherently accurate - but they are INaccurate when using incompatible pellets (airguns can be notoriously very pellet fussy - what shoots good in a lot of airguns, may not necessarily shoot well in one's particular sample) or if they have poor tiggers which mitigates any "inherent" accuracy.
Most springers are at the upper end of the budget spectrum - and tend to be relatively good quality - especially the German guns like Weihrauch and Diana (re-badged as RWS in USA), the British guns are good too - but beware some traditional BIG names like Webley are no longer made in England...... some Spanish guns are good - but the really bottom price end of the springers tend to have pretty poor triggers..... Although the bottom end seems to be mostly Chinese - they have also tried to copy the Rekord trigger to some degree - this is available on the B20 and BAM B26 - the BAM B26 is reasonably well regarded (with caveats) but that's about $120....
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