Anyone switched from Wicked Edge to Tormek?

Vicv said:
That is pretty bad that is shipped like that. Glad you got it going. I am. Going to disagree though on the wicked edge making better "top quality" edges. Like anything else a belt grinder takes practice. It won't make up for being a bad sharpener. It just speeds up the process of free hand with stones as it is also a free hand way of sharpening. I can get just as good of edges as someone can with a wicked edge. And I'll get it much faster. Not saying it's better than any other way. Depends on the tool using the tool:-)
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The thing you can't really replicate on a belt sander is the toothiness you can create w/ the Wicked Edge... Yes, you can use a coarser belt, however, when you buff it on felt/leather or whatever you use it will round those teeth out. On the Wicked Edge you can finish directly off the stone w/ no stropping and have a burr free, clean apex w/ a lot of tooth. This is the reason I reprofile on the belt sander often, and then microbevel on the WEPS.
 
Yes that can be a problem I haven't been able to finish an edge without the leather. I prefer a 1-3k finish anyway. But often I finish the edge off on a stone anyways because I enjoy it. But I don't think a top quality edge means it has to be coarse.
 
I had to completely disassemble my Viel when it arrived. Replaced all the hardware with stainless bolts and lock nuts. I can't remember what else I had to do to get it from vibrating apart all the time. But once it was squared away its been a good unit.
 
Vicv said:
That is pretty bad that is shipped like that. Glad you got it going. I am. Going to disagree though on the wicked edge making better "top quality" edges. Like anything else a belt grinder takes practice. It won't make up for being a bad sharpener. It just speeds up the process of free hand with stones as it is also a free hand way of sharpening. I can get just as good of edges as someone can with a wicked edge. And I'll get it much faster. Not saying it's better than any other way. Depends on the tool using the tool:-)
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Yes, your are correct, a lot of it was my complete lack of experience and practice. I'm a really bad sharpener on a belt grinder, having sharpened just one knife. The Winkler was my first try. I spent a lot of time trying to get a decent edge, but just could not pull it off. I switched to free handing on diamond stones and got a fair edge, but nothing great, more or less like the average factory edge.

The best edge I could get on the Viel would half tear and half cut thin notebook paper.

The good part of the belt grinder is that I could very quickly reprofile the edge, something that would take me hours on the WE. So that's great.

However, when I did a final sharpening on my WE -- 50-, 80-, 100-, 200-, 400-, 600-, 800- and 1000-grit diamond stones, followed by 1200- and 1600-grit ceramic stones, and then finished with stropping. The final edge is now incredibly sharp, able to shave hair-thin curlicues off the paper.

My sense is that the belt grinder requires a lot of muscle memory to hold a constant angle. I don't need that muscle memory with the WE. I'm sure I'll get better with the belt grinder, but even on my first try with the WE, I could get a much, much better edge than I can get with the belt grinder. I think that sharpening with the WE is science, while sharpening with a belt grinder is art (sorry Fred). I'm not much of an artist. Can't sing or dance, either.

I think I'll keep the belt grinder for major reprofiling, machetes, axes and such. For me, there is no substitute for the WE. But the belt grinder definitely improves my capabilities -- and with experience it will get even better.
 
Vicv said:
Yes that can be a problem I haven't been able to finish an edge without the leather. I prefer a 1-3k finish anyway. But often I finish the edge off on a stone anyways because I enjoy it. But I don't think a top quality edge means it has to be coarse.
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Very true.

Twindog said:
Yes, your are correct, a lot of it was my complete lack of experience and practice. I'm a really bad sharpener on a belt grinder, having sharpened just one knife. The Winkler was my first try. I spent a lot of time trying to get a decent edge, but just could not pull it off. I switched to free handing on diamond stones and got a fair edge, but nothing great, more or less like the average factory edge.

The best edge I could get on the Viel would half tear and half cut thin notebook paper.

The good part of the belt grinder is that I could very quickly reprofile the edge, something that would take me hours on the WE. So that's great.

However, when I did a final sharpening on my WE -- 50-, 80-, 100-, 200-, 400-, 600-, 800- and 1000-grit diamond stones, followed by 1200- and 1600-grit ceramic stones, and then finished with stropping. The final edge is now incredibly sharp, able to shave hair-thin curlicues off the paper.

My sense is that the belt grinder requires a lot of muscle memory to hold a constant angle. I don't need that muscle memory with the WE. I'm sure I'll get better with the belt grinder, but even on my first try with the WE, I could get a much, much better edge than I can get with the belt grinder. I think that sharpening with the WE is science, while sharpening with a belt grinder is art (sorry Fred). I'm not much of an artist. Can't sing or dance, either.

I think I'll keep the belt grinder for major reprofiling, machetes, axes and such. For me, there is no substitute for the WE. But the belt grinder definitely improves my capabilities -- and with experience it will get even better.
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You got some guts to try your first knife on a belt sander having it be a Winkler! lol. Yes, it does take a while of developing muscle memory w/ the belt sander, but practice makes perfect! As you state though, it will be very convenient having around simply just for the reprofile work. Worth it's weight in gold if you ask me! hehe
 
I think it will take more than practice. On the Winkler, a 20 dps angle puts the spine 0.44 inches away from the belt. A 15 dps angle puts the spine 0.32 inches from the belt. That's not much difference (basically a tenth of an inch) for muscle memory to discern, even for a full 5 degrees difference. That's why the WE edge, which always gives you perfect angle, is so good at creating super fine edges.

Some people can hold a fairly constant angle naturally. The rest of us can't.
 
Vicv said:
Yes that can be a problem I haven't been able to finish an edge without the leather. I prefer a 1-3k finish anyway. But often I finish the edge off on a stone anyways because I enjoy it. But I don't think a top quality edge means it has to be coarse.
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Twindog said:
I think it will take more than practice. On the Winkler, a 20 dps angle puts the spine 0.44 inches away from the belt. A 15 dps angle puts the spine 0.32 inches from the belt. That's not much difference (basically a tenth of an inch) for muscle memory to discern, even for a full 5 degrees difference. That's why the WE edge, which always gives you perfect angle, is so good at creating super fine edges.

Some people can hold a fairly constant angle naturally. The rest of us can't.
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Very true. I have owned and used the Edge Pro Apex, Professional, and the Wicked Edge and the WEPS is my favorite. It has it's flaws, but I work around them.

Just got my custom jaws in :D Seem to be sturdy but I need to do more comparisons to the stock ones to see if the perceived benefits are worth it. But the clamping ability alone (being able to tilt) is worth it to me... This is my second WEPS anyway, so I still have a gen 2 set up for other knives - I would not go only to a gen 3 w/ out a back up.

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I wouldn't worry too much about all that dps stuff. And there's no magic to free hand. It's practice. And developing proper technique. Which comes from practice. I've never used a WE but I do have a lansky and a gatco. Personally I don't like the guided systems but that's me. If it works for you excellent we're after sharp edges here. A bit of advice though I wouldn't use the belt sander to thin/reprofile a knife until you're good at sharpening with it. Screw up an edge and it's easy to fix. Screw up a grind and that could be the end of that knife. I used the grinder for 5 years till I was comfortable to regrind a knife. It's much harder to do properly than sharpening
 
I've got the WE 3 and really like it. I also like the Viel. I've sharpened over 5k knives using it. You'll want to get the top pulley with cartridge bearings. My first one was toast after 2k knives (+ tons of other tools).
The shipping is always some sort of problem. I've ordred two and both times they were incomplete, damaged and loose, cheap parts. Most notably the useless rubber feet. Also keep an eye on the slot where all the attachments lock into. When you tighten it down it may twist a bit for instance, if your using the knife jig it will create an uneven bevel on one side vs the other.
Good luck!
 
Fwiw.
I like Tormek. If anything it's magical properties of being a Swedish tool. My buddy has one, production carving, it's worth it to him. Fixes neglected tools well.
Aside from scythe blades Otherwise I don't find it too much useful.
I rather for knives & chisels have Makita wetgrinder as its a flat wheel & wont hollow grind.
 
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Don't know if this has been mentioned but in the u s I would lean towards a Kalamazoo. I have a chef buddy that does all his work knives on one and I think he gets a nice edge with it. The one time I watched him use it it didn't seem to heat the edges too badly, compared to my junky harbor freight. I just use that for axes and hatchets now.
Russ
 
Josh, the Wicked Edge sounds like it may be somewhat limited. I am thinking of getting one, and I want something fairly easy as I am not good at all at freehand sharpening. My strokes are fine, but I can't match the bevel without using an angle cube freehand and that is a pain.

Can you use a generation 2 upgrade sold for the Generation 1 on the Generation 3 sharpener? Would you actually have to buy a generation 3 and a generation 2 system to have both or can you easily use the older generation 2 arms on the generation 3 WE?
 
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