Anyone trade-in/sell the SUV to get a more practical car?

America has for too long been financially subsidised in its love affair with petrol.

We all need to:

1. Realise that everyone else in the world has to breathe what comes out of our exhaust systems, and;

2. Start paying a realistic price for fuel; one that reflects how much damage we all do every time we turn on our engines.

"The latest data show that 30 percent of U.S. adults 20 years of age and older—over 60 million people—are obese. This increase is not limited to adults. The percentage of young people who are overweight has more than tripled since 1980."

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
America has for too long been financially subsidised in its love affair with petrol.
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and who was subsidising us ? you all paid the same as we did/do. We just have not been taxing our own at the rates that some countries have



maximus otter said:
1. Realise that everyone else in the world has to breathe what comes out of your exhaust systems, and;
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yeah right- london is known for the clean air it has.

maximus otter said:
2. Start paying a realistic price for fuel; one that reflects how much damage you do every time you turn on your engine.
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Trouble is who gets the additional monies from the higher prices? Right now the biggest benificiaries are people that fund interntional terrorism. Our prices have been realistic- they are just rising and your nations are not "sterile"

maximus otter said:
"The latest data show that 30 percent of U.S. adults 20 years of age and older—over 60 million people—are obese. This increase is not limited to adults. The percentage of young people who are overweight has more than tripled since 1980."
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we might be heavier because we tend overall to have teeth that are in way better shape than some island nation countries and are able to eat more meat easier :D




it is obvious that other nations don't like our lifestyles but we aren't other nations....

And why don't you keep your anti american drivel to another nations forums, I don't goto your house and throw stones. You seem to have a history of such and it is apparent in your posts. Keep your little snippetts of anti american crap to yourself here.
 
Maximus, there was a segment on the nightly news about how your country is driving smaller cars and bicyleing a whole lot. Which is good and the Brits looked happy with that too. You know, last night we were discussing selling the SUV when what came back to mind are all the attatchments you can add to it like an overhead canope, I can sleep in it with the seats down, etc... heck, I could live in it if I had to and pack a bicycle in there to get around on. I don't think I'm going to sell it.
 
sygyzy said:
there is a very good chance that they care about the environment to some extent
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They can't care that much. The emissions put put by Toyota to make it would balance out the MPG emissions. Hybrids are a step to the side, not forwards.

For the moment the European made (Specifically French) Diesel engine reigns supreme for MPG and emissions. Renault emissions are so low they are less then a comparable petrol engine. Whats more is you get more the the gallon and a longer lasting engine. Win, win.

So, buy a Euro Diesel, French if you can stomache it, if not a German one.
 
America may have its problems right now with the cost of gas but it does bug me when someone from a glass house starts chucking stones. Otter does not want to breath what comes out out tail pipes, well last time I was in London it was pretty smoggy with all the bus exhaust. And talk about traffic??? No wonder people there don't want to drive.

The U.S. of A. may not be perfect, but we're not a socialistic state that even forbides its citizens to fight back againt criminals.

As far as our choice of car we drive, yes we like big cars. The U.S. is a big country compared to say England, that you can plop down in our New England area with some ground left over. Europe could be put down east of the Missisippi. Driving from Paris to Berlin is like driving from Boston to Richmond VA. Lets face it, Euopeans drive little cars because the just don't drive that far. If I want to drive out to the Rockys for a hunting trip thats 4000 miles round trip for me. I ain't doing that in a ity bity sardine can!

The U.S. drivers need bigger cars because our driving conditions are a hell of alot different than people "over there". Come on otter, is there anything in merry old England that is not a couple of hours drive away?

Bigger coutry=bigger cars.

We just have to make them more fuel efficant.
 
I had prepare a long, detailed, hyper-linked reply, but the Internet ate it... :mad:

To sum up:

US car fuel economy maximised in the late 1980s. It has worsened, then levelled off at a lower level since then.

The number of so-called "Sports Utility(?) Vehicles, averaging 18.1 mpg has increased astronomically. Even US cars only average 24 mpg.

Most US mileage is not used in cross-continent trips; it's used on the commute to the better-paid job you need to make your car payments.

Why do you need to use a big car to drive a long distance? Do you hunt deer with a 155mm towed howitzer? ;)

The USA uses a grossly disproportionate amount of the world's energy (second only Canada, which I'd never have suspected!)

I've changed my lifestyle to use less energy. It doesn't hurt. try it!

Britain is over 1,000 miles long from end-to end.

That's not everything I said in the original message, but I've just ridden 17 miles on my bicycle & I need a shower...

maximus otter
 
I drive an 01 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4x4. Great vehicle. Bought it new right after 9/11 and got a great deal. If I keep my foot out of it, it gets 15.5 to 16 MPG in the city and can get 18+ on the highway. I've got a year left to pay on it and with the decent financing that Ford offered the payments are reasonable. I've added a nice shell to the back and have a bed extender as well. I love this truck and if I have to I can put everyone and everything that is dear to me and move if I have to. I can pull my travel trailer etc. I've thought about selling it or trading it in several times but I can't bring myself to do it.

Look at the used car lots. Everyone is dumping their SUVs. Dealers aren't going to be able to sell them and they aren't giving you what they would have a year ago.

I've looked at the Toyota Matrix but that is $20,000. We have a 7% sales tax so I would have to pay $1,400 in tax alone. That money would make up the difference for quite a few miles.

The option that I am considering is adding a third car to the mix. My wife drives a 92 Saab 900 that we bought new in Germany and it only has 140K on it. I now ask her if she is driving it that day and if the answer is no I take it to work and the truck stays home. When my truck is paid for I will keep it and look for a 3 year old Toyota Corolla. I'll park the truck for the most part and raise the deductibles to keep insurance reasonable and drive the Toy to work etc.

Gas prices are only one aspect of driving costs. Taxes, insurance, are all part of the mix. If I was looking for a new car right now I would absolutely keep gas prices in mind and look for good MPG. For right now I will keep my F150 and combine trips, drive conservatively and hope for the best.
 
it may be cheaper to buy a used beater that gets good mpg than selling your tuck/suv

my 05 tian 4x4 gets 14-15 mpg in city = 60$ per week for my driving

plus insurance and note and it equals a modest house payment

maybe I need 1 of these

retrolx_main.jpg
 
well I for years have driven small vw diesels that got 40-53 mpg. A little over a year ago I bought a full size blazer for personal use. I am 6'5 280 and stuffing myself into the small cars was/is not fun. The comfort of the big truck is worth a bit to me and I wish I would have "treated" myself years ago. However the gas prices have me starting to long for another VW diesel. I btw bought not one but two bicycles that fit me this year, a new hybrid cannondale and a used raleigh mountain bike. I believe in conservation and do weigh costs generally but the cavalier I own gets loaned out to those in need more than I drive it. I wish they made a car for us "little guys" that was economical instead of looking like a clown car when I get in and out of it....

as far as our disappropriaqte amount/use of fuel- says who? we buy more than most used to but others are now starting too.It has more to do with PROSPERITY than anything else.

And I have been deer hunting with my old vw rabbit... I'll tell ya we have 300lb plus deer hear in ohio and a deer in the hatchback stinks!
 
jackknife said:
America may have its problems right now with the cost of gas but it does bug me when someone from a glass house starts chucking stones. Otter does not want to breath what comes out out tail pipes, well last time I was in London it was pretty smoggy with all the bus exhaust. And talk about traffic??? No wonder people there don't want to drive.

The U.S. of A. may not be perfect, but we're not a socialistic state that even forbides its citizens to fight back againt criminals.

As far as our choice of car we drive, yes we like big cars. The U.S. is a big country compared to say England, that you can plop down in our New England area with some ground left over. Europe could be put down east of the Missisippi. Driving from Paris to Berlin is like driving from Boston to Richmond VA. Lets face it, Euopeans drive little cars because the just don't drive that far. If I want to drive out to the Rockys for a hunting trip thats 4000 miles round trip for me. I ain't doing that in a ity bity sardine can!

The U.S. drivers need bigger cars because our driving conditions are a hell of alot different than people "over there". Come on otter, is there anything in merry old England that is not a couple of hours drive away?

Bigger coutry=bigger cars.

We just have to make them more fuel efficant.
Click to expand...

I don't understand your logic. If you need to drive far you have to use a big car? What for?

A big car uses up more petrol. It is slower. And i've seen those pick up truck back seats. They ain't the number 1 in comfort. A nice European made estate/stationwagon will take you anywhere in greater comfort with less petrol.

America is a country where a military vehicle (hummer) is used as a status symbol. Where it is cool to own a pimped up Ford Escalade. It just seems that most of the people who actually drive these gas guzzlers actually don't use it for its intended purpose.

I think mpollard has got the right idea. Use the pickup when you really need it. And use a better mileage car for most days when you don't need a 4x4. Just examine your travelling situation and see whether you really do need that extra space in the back? I just believe that a lot of people can make do with a smaller car. It's just that when you tend to have a bigger car you tend to want to fill it up more.

BTW i think the UK is doing a hell of a good job trying to reduce traffic congestion and emmision. The congestion charge is now up to £8. However you can use a Prius and be exempt. You can take the subway. And the fumes of one bus carrying 75 passengers is less than the fumes of 60 cars.
 
I drive a 2005 F-150 Lariot. I bought it as I needed a new truck and at 50 years old have never before owned a full size truck. I live in the country and comute 60 miles a day to work. We need a truck out in the country. 4X4 is a nice feature out in the Maine winters also. I bring our rubbish to the town dump in it. (No trash pick-up out here). I haul home building supplies in it, I commute to work in it. It is the first loaded vehicle that I have ever owned. It gets about 17 mpg average, and I love it!! It even has heated seats. I will drive it for the next 10 years or so and not feel guilty if someone else thinks it is a gas guzzler. I have bought economy models my whole life. No more. This a tank of a truck that will last well and protect me in an accident with it's full frame. To each his own. People can drive the hybreds, I am lucky to get down that low and be able to get back up. I am 6'4 and 230 lb. Another advantage of a big truck is that if you have a bad back they are much easier to get in and out of than a skateboard with a shoebox attached. Drive what you like and leave the rest of us to drive what we like. We pay for it with OUR hard earned money.
 
Point44 said:
America is a country where a military vehicle (hummer) is used as a status symbol. Where it is cool to own a pimped up Ford Escalade. It just seems that most of the people who actually drive these gas guzzlers actually don't use it for its intended purpose.
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Aside from the gas prices and regulatory situation being the reason why we have so many inefficient vehicles, I forgot to mention one thing. The way they're marketed.

Large vehicles are more profitable than small cars. As a result, they're marketed heavily. Good for manufacturers, bad for most consumers. I still turn on the TV and see frequent advertising for them and I am surprised. It seems like rather than heavily promoting cars now, we're just being offered better deals on SUVs.

IMO, the American companies are going to have to adapt to oil prices like Toyota and other SE Asian manufacturers have and plan to. For once they're going to have to listen to consumer demand, rather than dictate it.


Personally, even if I could afford to buy an SUV and fuel it, I would not unless work made it necessary. In a few years, maybe less, Americans may be the same price for gas that Europeans are paying now. You have to ask yourself,"could I afford this? Could I afford this if I lose my job?". Even if I easily could, I still see far better uses for my money than dumping thousands of dollars of liquid fossils into what I drive.

Now if the Hummer came with REAL military options like the Mk 19 grenade launcher or the M2HB machine gun, I would consider it. It could be useful in some rough urban environments. Or in the suburbs - those Million Mom March types can really blow a whistle and shoot pepper spray. ;)
 
Point44 said:
I don't understand your logic. If you need to drive far you have to use a big car? What for?

A big car uses up more petrol. It is slower. And i've seen those pick up truck back seats. They ain't the number 1 in comfort. A nice European made estate/stationwagon will take you anywhere in greater comfort with less petrol.

America is a country where a military vehicle (hummer) is used as a status symbol. Where it is cool to own a pimped up Ford Escalade. It just seems that most of the people who actually drive these gas guzzlers actually don't use it for its intended purpose.

I think mpollard has got the right idea. Use the pickup when you really need it. And use a better mileage car for most days when you don't need a 4x4. Just examine your travelling situation and see whether you really do need that extra space in the back? I just believe that a lot of people can make do with a smaller car. It's just that when you tend to have a bigger car you tend to want to fill it up more.

BTW i think the UK is doing a hell of a good job trying to reduce traffic congestion and emmision. The congestion charge is now up to £8. However you can use a Prius and be exempt. You can take the subway. And the fumes of one bus carrying 75 passengers is less than the fumes of 60 cars.
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So is everyone in the U.K and idiot or what? Well I take that back there have been a few good blokes I have met from there but....What makes ya think the big cars and trucks are slow and uncomfortale? Have you ever driven a large Cadilac or full size truck? I have great seats in my trucks. I have taken many a trip over 1000 miles round trip in tiny cars and the difference between it and the full size truckis unbelievable for comfort untill you have done it. I have only taken the big truck a couple of times compared to the dozens in the vw or cavalier. I guess you all would have a cow to hear of single guys like me having 4 trucks and a car? Heck I have multilple personal vehicles too. We have been and are a BLESSED nation. I think the big difference out there where you all are is that we average blokes can and do own land and estates. We have access to areas that you may have never even seen let alone been privaledged to actually be able to use. Kinda like a goldfish in a bowl judging a free running ocean fish that is bigger and better and enjoys more freedoms because he can't see the "waste of all that water and resources" You all don't desire it so don't bother me if I do. The difference between bus and car emissions depends on if the bus is a diesel and what the other cars actually are.

On top of all that I'd bet there are more brits and euro's wanting to immigrate here to live than vice versa, kinda says alot and I don't think they want to come here for less freedoms do you?
 
We traded my Wife's Ford Escape in for a Toyota Camry. Went from 16 mpg to 27 mpg. We still have a 5.4 liter V-8 Expedition to pull the camper and for when the whole family needs to go somewhere together. Mostly it sits in the driveway though (depreciating). We considered a hybrid but the timing was wrong for tax breaks and most models except the Escape hybrid are to small for our current needs.
 
the pint sized SUVs. With a 4cyl/ 5spd they get pretty good mpg for daily commuting but still have enough room for camping supplies, the dogs or stuff from Home Depot. The European wagons are awesome but out of my budget. I haven't been too impressed by the American wagons. That leaves the CRV, RAV4, Vitara, Forester crowd. I think that's where it's at.

Frank
 
I will be keeping my F-250 diesel, CC, SB, 4x4. By the way, it IS an ultra low emissions vehicle. I get 15.8 around town, and no I am not selling or complaining. I get better gas mileage than a Toyata Tundra 4x4, 4 door. And my last truck, a V-10 F-250 got better gas mileage than a Dodge Durango; the last permutation of that vehicle, not the current one. I had a surgeon friend who had one. This caught me in an off mood tonight.

And as side not, I am sick of people bitching about "behemouth SUV's". It is my right to buy a huge SUV if I so choose. If you don't like them, DON'T buy it, but quit complaining about them, and leave the people alone who choose to buy one!! And I am not just talking about here, I am sick of hearing this on other forums.
 
I've been thinking of looking for an older diesel at an affordable price and looking into bio diesel and the convertor for running on used fryer oil. :D
 
Hi Maximus Otter-

It was very disappointing to see your vicious anti-American post in this thread.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Nope, I'm going the other way.

I'm a fan of large American luxury cars. High gas prices are driving the costs of these cars down. So I took advantage of these record highs to get a great deal on my "new" 1977 Lincoln Towncar.

It weighs 5500 pounds and is more than 20 feet long, with a 7.5 Liter engine also used on medium duty commercial trucks. I get about 12 mpg on the freeway and maybe 5 around town.

I did some calculations to see how much the additional fuel for this car is costing me compared to a Cavalier or Civic. Basically, the guy with the Civic would take the better part of the decade to break even with me due to his much higher inital purchase price. Add in repairs, maintainence, and insurance and I'm even better off than him.

So, I could pay lots of money to drive something that I would hate every day of my life, or pay less money to drive an old car that makes me smile every morning and gets me lots of thumbs up from other motorists. Easy choice, in my opinion.
 
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