Anyone trade-in/sell the SUV to get a more practical car?

[Ryan8]

Hi Maximus Otter-

It was very disappointing to see your vicious anti-American post in this thread.

It was a criticism of one aspect of American culture.

If everyone who ever said, "this was wrong, we need to change it" was labeled anti-[nation,tribe,religion] we'd still be living in the Stone Age.

 

[Frank]

Hi Maximus Otter-

It was very disappointing to see your vicious anti-American post in this thread.

~ Blue Jays ~

If you want revenge, just mention dental hygene. The thought of brushing their teeth makes Brits cringe.

 

[Blue Jays]

Hi Ryan8-

The broadbrushed criticism of the USA and her citizens was inaccurate. I maintain hope Maximus Otter regrets his rather harsh choice of words.

~ Blue Jays ~

 

[maximus otter]

Hi Maximus Otter-

It was very disappointing to see your vicious anti-American post in this thread.

~ Blue Jays ~

Please read my post again, then enlighten me as to the parts you found "vicious" and "anti-American."

maximus otter

 

[Point44]

I don't think Max. Otter was being anti-american. He was just stating certain facts.

You got to admit a large majority of Americans use way more petrol than they need to. I'm not blaming anyone who uses an SUV. As long as you really need it that's all that matters. If you're buying it just because, then you're just the same as those rappers with their escalades and hummers.

If you go hunting you probably need the truck bed to dump the deer in. Fine. That's required. But if you're using it just for sending your kids to school then that's just a waste of petrol.

If you say that you can buy whatever you want and use it whenever you want then you can also say the same about smokers who can smoke wherever he wants and puff that smoke in your kids face if he wants to.

Petrol is a limited resource and it would be good for all of us to realise it and use it accordingly.

To further add on the big country theory. Is it why you have big new york steaks and big mcdonald's portions as well? I always thought all humans were equal. Maybe americans need more food as well. Just like their trucks.

 

[Cindy Denning]

AAAAARRRRGHHH. I feel like a hostage in my own country. Makeing specific trips to get household goods, groceries, etc... all in 1 trip. I am planning diseases and ailments for my other side of town relatives as I type just to get out of Gaston for at least a day, is that a bad thing?

 

[Emanuel]

I've got an old 4x4 van, but it's got transmission problems and I need ot get rid of it.
I'll still need a 4x4, and probably a bigger one.

I just bought a small ranch, and on a rainy day I would not be able to get 50 yards up my driveway with a normal car. Am I expected to walk the next 200 yards up to where I'm building my house?

I need a big 4x4 that will not only get me over any terrain, but also has enough power to carry heavy materials. And that means a big fuel innefficient engine.

I'd like to save gas money, but what can I do?

 

[razcob]

I have a company car to use on my 60 mile round trip to and from work, but I have been cutting back on fuel usage by not mowing my lawn as often.

Don't pick on our friends the 'Brits', that is what the french are for..

 

[T. Erdelyi]

I get between 38 to 45 mpg, but than again I'm driving a 1984 Yamaha Venture.

I'll keep the SUV for the North East winters, I just took our second car off the road for the spring through the fall.

 

[shaldag]

I don't think that old Max remotely qualifies as anti-American. However, he and some others are mistaken on a poiint or two. If you have to drive long distances, a big old American gas-guzzler is much more comfortable than any mid-sized car. You will be much less tired, and your back will hurt much less at the end of the day. Experience. However, this does not apply to big SUVs. They are uncomfortable to drive, and handle unpleasantly. (I don't know about a hummer, but others--fords, chevys etc). We have a small Subaru Forester which is reaching the end of it's days, and it handles deep New England snow quite well. Our main car, however is a toyota minivan, with the all-wheel drive option (again for the New England snow). This is not suitable for four wheeeling down Imogene Pass (for all you Rocky Mountain types) but does get us to work and back. (If any of you want to laugh at me for driving a minivan, please keep in mind that it is a tactical-assault minivan.) We chose theis over the large SUV to carry us and the kids because it is designed from the ground up (unlike many SUVs which are bolted onto a truck frame)--is much more comfrotable to drive and handles better on flat ground (on which we drive most of the time) and gets better gas mileage.

Two things amaze me about this car stuff:
1. people do not seem to realize that different people have different needs. Someone in the mountains of Colorado or the plains of North Dakota needs a very different car than does someone living in the Bronx or London.

2. I do not understand why people see a Lincoln Navigator or a Hummer as a status symbol.

 

[Grey Area]

I guess you all would have a cow to hear of single guys like me having 4 trucks and a car? Heck I have multilple personal vehicles too.

While I don't quite see the point of it, I also do not mind particularly. Cars do not interest me much, but I own enough other stuff that other people find no use or need for. However...

We have been and are a BLESSED nation. I think the big difference out there where you all are is that we average blokes can and do own land and estates. We have access to areas that you may have never even seen let alone been privaledged to actually be able to use. Kinda like a goldfish in a bowl judging a free running ocean fish that is bigger and better and enjoys more freedoms because he can't see the "waste of all that water and resources" You all don't desire it so don't bother me if I do.

Blessed... I'm not sure I would use that word. The US has for a long time enjoyed quasi-subsidized fuel prices, which allowed the average American to purchase (and use) quantities of fuel that would have been unaffordable in other countries. This has led to the US being the top consumer of oil, both in total and per capita. The US has also been lucky to have been among the first to use oil in large quantities, when there was still plenty of it left, and has therefore in its limited area been able to provide for a lifestyle that cannot be maintained for the world's population as a whole. (This is to a lesser degree also true for Europe, Japan, Australia etc - the entire "First World".) By consuming all that oil the US and these other countries have taken more than their fair share of the planet's finite resources. I think this does deserve criticism, and with the US being the most guilty it would deserve the most criticism.

Now China and India want that high-energy lifestyle, too, and at the same time even the big oil companies admit that the oil supplies are dwindling. With increasing demand and decreasing supply the prices will rise and rise, and I think that the country most dependent on cheap oil will suffer the most. Thus this blessing might turn out to be a curse.

The other advantages (plenty of cars, land and estates for everyone) are more due to the low population density of the US. It is no problem to buy multiple cars in Europe, several European countries actually have more cars per 1000 people than the US. A bigger problem may be how to pay for all that parking space. Land and estates will simply be unaffordable in the more crowded areas of Europe (but not much of a problem in Scandinavia, for example). The average New Yorker won't be able to afford all that much land either; Europe just has more of these crowded areas than the US does.

On top of all that I'd bet there are more brits and euro's wanting to immigrate here to live than vice versa, kinda says alot and I don't think they want to come here for less freedoms do you?

Quite possible, but keep in mind that there are about 700 million Europeans versus 300 million Americans, so you will usually have more Europeans in just about anything.
Besides, in the US I would have to adapt to the severe speed limits on your highways, a massive infringement on the freedoms of someone used to the German Autobahn.

Kristofer

 

[Blue Jays]

Hi Maximus Otter-

You've been on this board for years and I almost always enjoy your thoughtful posts, but you're taking a swing at Americans on this thread and you know it. Your comments are highlighted below along with my commentary.

Please read my post again, then enlighten me as to the parts you found "vicious" and "anti-American."

In your original post below you attempt to "pin" fuel consumption woes on Americans and their use of the automobile. Everyone has to breathe what comes out of our exhaust? Try visiting southeast Asia with several million people buzzing around on two-stroke minibikes spitting acrid plumes into the air and tell me who is polluting whom. It would take hundreds of cars with U.S.-regulated pollution controls to equal the level of exhaust produced by one of these primitive machines. Americans have been strident in our quest for increasingly clean-burning vehicles.

Realistic price for fuel? So let's say we start paying $6.00 per gallon...how is that going to miraculously start cleaning the air and repairing the environment? How is this is the fault of Americans or is it just easier to go with the kneejerk "Blame America First" way of thinking?

America has for too long been financially subsidised in its love affair with petrol. You need to:

1. Realise that everyone else in the world has to breathe what comes out of your exhaust systems, and;

2. Start paying a realistic price for fuel; one that reflects how much damage you do every time you turn on your engine.

maximus otter

If you want to talk about conserving fuel and minimizing pollution as a global concern, that's fine. There are plenty of Americans who concern themselves with preserving the environment every single day of the year. Your attempts to isolate Americans as the source of the problem are disingenuous and inaccurate.

~ Blue Jays ~

 

[T.K.C.]

Nope, I'm going the other way.

I'm a fan of large American luxury cars. High gas prices are driving the costs of these cars down. So I took advantage of these record highs to get a great deal on my "new" 1977 Lincoln Towncar.

It weighs 5500 pounds and is more than 20 feet long, with a 7.5 Liter engine also used on medium duty commercial trucks. I get about 12 mpg on the freeway and maybe 5 around town.

I did some calculations to see how much the additional fuel for this car is costing me compared to a Cavalier or Civic. Basically, the guy with the Civic would take the better part of the decade to break even with me due to his much higher inital purchase price. Add in repairs, maintainence, and insurance and I'm even better off than him.

So, I could pay lots of money to drive something that I would hate every day of my life, or pay less money to drive an old car that makes me smile every morning and gets me lots of thumbs up from other motorists. Easy choice, in my opinion.

Good for you!! I LOVE driving my truck!! And I wouldn't trade it for anything!!

 

[maximus otter]

Bluejays,

I have considered your points and edited my post as follows:

"America has for too long been financially subsidised in its love affair with petrol.

We all need to:

1. Realise that everyone else in the world has to breathe what comes out of our exhaust systems, and;

2. Start paying a realistic price for fuel; one that reflects how much damage we all do every time we turn on our engines."

I do, however, maintain that the US is a prime offender in the pollution stakes:

"Though accounting for only 5 percent of the world's population, Americans consume 26 percent of the world's energy. (American Almanac)

In 1997, U.S. residents consumed an average of 12,133 kilowatt-hours of electricity each, almost nine times greater than the average for the rest of the world. (Grist Magazine)

Among industrialized and developing countries, Canada consumes per capita the most energy in the world, the United Sates ranks second.

America uses about 15 times more energy per person than does the typical developing country.

Carbon emissions in North America reached 1,760 million metric tons in 1998, a 38 percent increase since 1970. They are expected to grow another 31 percent, to 2,314 million metric tons, by the year 2020. (U.S. Department of Energy)"

And so on...

http://www.solarenergy.org/resources/energyfacts.html

Merely pointing out that other people also "offend" is not an excuse for "offending".

I repeat: my post was neither vicious, nor anti-American.

maximus otter

 

[tallpaul]

Blessed... I'm not sure I would use that word. The US has for a long time enjoyed quasi-subsidized fuel prices, which allowed the average American to purchase (and use) quantities of fuel that would have been unaffordable in other countries.
Kristofer

We have been a blessed nation being formed under a christian God and had been untill the few have been trying to remove it from our nation. There was no nation more blessed all around untill then....

as far as subsidized pricing where in the world do you guys keep coming up with that? Your gas suppliers pay the same as us- we just have not been taxed as high as some others have- thats not a subsidized product just because we are taxed LESS

 

[tallpaul]

Bluejays,

I have considered your points and edited my post as follows:

"America has for too long been financially subsidised in its love affair with petrol.

We all need to:

1. Realise that everyone else in the world has to breathe what comes out of our exhaust systems, and;

2. Start paying a realistic price for fuel; one that reflects how much damage we all do every time we turn on our engines."

I do, however, maintain that the US is a prime offender in the pollution stakes:

"Though accounting for only 5 percent of the world's population, Americans consume 26 percent of the world's energy. (American Almanac)

In 1997, U.S. residents consumed an average of 12,133 kilowatt-hours of electricity each, almost nine times greater than the average for the rest of the world. (Grist Magazine)

Among industrialized and developing countries, Canada consumes per capita the most energy in the world, the United Sates ranks second.

America uses about 15 times more energy per person than does the typical developing country.

Carbon emissions in North America reached 1,760 million metric tons in 1998, a 38 percent increase since 1970. They are expected to grow another 31 percent, to 2,314 million metric tons, by the year 2020. (U.S. Department of Energy)"

And so on...

http://www.solarenergy.org/resources/energyfacts.html

Merely pointing out that other people also "offend" is not an excuse for "offending".

I repeat: my post was neither vicious, nor anti-American.

maximus otter

Sorry max- you may not see it that way but it seems that anytime you can post something about america here that gives a negative view in your view you do.... Just because we consume more energy does not mean a whole lot more than we CAN AFFORD TO or have had the ability to do so... Our standard of living has been higher than most countries for a long time and there are alot of jealous folks and "do gooders" that feel that is wrong and seem to take the shots at us that ya' do. I say keep you comments on the american way of life to yourself. We have always done what we have needed too, we will change as WE see fit, if we do at all...

 

[Lone Hunter]

I save money by not buying new. I buy late model used cars, pay cash and drive it for 10 years or so. Last one a Caravan, 8 months old, 11k on the clock.Paid about 7-8 thoudsand less than a new one cost. you can buy a lot of gas for 8,000 grand.....

 

[Point44]

Sorry max- you may not see it that way but it seems that anytime you can post something about america here that gives a negative view in your view you do.... Just because we consume more energy does not mean a whole lot more than we CAN AFFORD TO or have had the ability to do so... Our standard of living has been higher than most countries for a long time and there are alot of jealous folks and "do gooders" that feel that is wrong and seem to take the shots at us that ya' do. I say keep you comments on the american way of life to yourself. We have always done what we have needed too, we will change as WE see fit, if we do at all...

Your way of thinking is that no one else can comment on anything about americans but americans? Funny when lots of americans like to criticize muslim countries that have nothing to do with americans. I don't want this to be political but your comments to max otter are uncalled for. He was making a valid argument that was in no way anti-american.

Higher standards of living also mean more responsibilities since you have a choice unlike motorcyclists in Asian countries who can't afford a car and have to make do with a motorcycle which spits out smoke like nobody's business.

Once again. Choose your vehicle according to what you're going to use it for and there will be no problems. There's no point arguing about this since it's your money and you're going to spend it as you like. But, however you like to spin it the whole world shares all earth's resources and EVERYONE is responsible for it. If you need that truck to get around 'cos there's no other way then by all means get it. Nobody is stopping you.

 

[komondor]

It's been interesting following this thread. There's a lot of good advice in here, thanks for suggestions. I'm still debating what I will do.

As far as the arguments are concerned, although I don't really agree with the sentiments of Max Otter and Point44, I like them both and respect their viewpoints.

 

[tallpaul]

Your way of thinking is that no one else can comment on anything about americans but americans? Funny when lots of americans like to criticize muslim countries that have nothing to do with americans. I don't want this to be political but your comments to max otter are uncalled for. He was making a valid argument that was in no way anti-american.

Higher standards of living also mean more responsibilities since you have a choice unlike motorcyclists in Asian countries who can't afford a car and have to make do with a motorcycle which spits out smoke like nobody's business.

Yes I might comment about them but I don't goto their forums to do it...
nor do I take a "shot" every time someone mentions some nation or lifestyle I dislike. I have seen a few posters here at BF that very often make snide comments about the United States and our lifestyles and use quotes ,articles etc to take them to make it look innocent,and I am not taking about them being made occasionally.
and BTW it is good to see you Brits sticking together...