Apple question

zenheretic

zenheretic

Joined
Oct 29, 2005
Messages
18,769
Alright you Apple doods, I have a few Apple questions as my computer is rapidly reaching obsolesence. I.E. I'm in the market for a new computer now or in the next year or so.

What I use a computer for: online (mmo) computer games, photos, music.

So for an Apple, I need to know what to expect for those uses:

1. MMO Games. I know Apples can run MS programs, but can they run them seemlessly, and how well will they run? Can I enjoy kick butt graphics (since the games are made for graphics cards particular to MS systems) while I kick butt?

2. Photos. I know that manipulating photos is pretty easy on a Mac. I'm not a pro but like to dabble. How easy is it to convert existing digital photos to a Mac?

3. Music. I know Apple used to be all DRM but is slowly moving away from that. I have a decent library of music. Can I convert all my music digitally or do I have to load each CD and do it the hard way? I don't own an IPod but a normal digital music device. I don't want an IPod. Can I use other products? I think mine is a Sandisk model.

I assume I have to buy a copy of Windows to run windows games. Will I have lots of ram to enjoy or will the dual windows and apple eat it all up?
 
MMO?

The only differences between an Apple PC and a Windows PC are the Operating system and the price tag. They use the same hardware as windows machines.

There is still some persistence of the "macs are better for photoshop and graphic design" myth, but that has not been true for at least a decade. Both work equally well. They still have a problem with games, not sure how well it runs with the windows emulation or whatever as you mentioned.

I too am overdue for a new computer.
 
As far as the MP3 player- did it come with a program for uploading and managing files, or is it drag and drop? If it has a program, you could check the manual to see if it is compatible. It should be.
 
The Apple safety point is no longer true - There are trojan attacks on Apple now !!
 
mete said:
The Apple safety point is no longer true - There are trojan attacks on Apple now !!
Click to expand...

That is no surprise to me. The only reason it never happened before was that there were so few users it wasn't worth the virus maker's effort.


I'm asking about the Apple because I was reading about Bulgron's computer with it's 4 core and 13mb of ram et. al. and suffered apple envy. :p
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
MMO?

The only differences between an Apple PC and a Windows PC are the Operating system and the price tag. They use the same hardware as windows machines.

There is still some persistence of the "macs are better for photoshop and graphic design" myth, but that has not been true for at least a decade. Both work equally well. They still have a problem with games, not sure how well it runs with the windows emulation or whatever as you mentioned.

I too am overdue for a new computer.
Click to expand...

Well I have photoshop and just don't find it user friendly. It just seemed some Apple systems photo programs were more intuitive.

I know Photoshop has a ton of useful applications, it is just hard to figure it out on your own.

An MMO is a "massively multiplayer online" game. The most famous being WOW (which I wouldn't touch :barf:). MMOs use a lot of graphic power and and can really bog down when 50 to 100 players are all fighting at the same time in the same area...so it hogs a lot of resources.
 
Is the operating system simpler to use? I have a very hard time doing anything with windows, other than entering basic text. I have put photos and videos on this PC, view them but that is about it. Sending basic emails work okay, but managing them is a headache.

There are so many operating commands on a windows PC, what I really need is a streamlined system with a simple interface without all these complex settings and options.
 
Yeah, games programmed for windows generally don't run well on OS X. If that's important, I'd stick with a PC.
 
I can't speak to the question of games so much, since I'm not a gamer. A lot of that is dependent on the graphics card though, and the same cards are, for the most part, available for both Mac and PC. If you want to use PC games, or run any other strictly PC applications, you can simply boot into Bootcamp, which is provided with all Macs (requires a copy Windows, as the Mac will be booting directly into Windows). You will have both operating systems available on one machine.

As far as manipulating photos, there is absolutely no difference between photos on a Mac and a PC: a Photoshop file is a Photoshop file, a tiff is a tiff, a jpeg is a jpeg, etc. There are a number of programs available for photo/graphics work on the Mac, from Photoshop on down to several programs that come with every Mac. Despite the misinformation already posted, yes, it's still easier to do photo work on the Mac platform, than on a PC. There are also a number of graphics programs available on a Mac that simply aren't available on a PC -- just the opposite of gaming. Yes, PC's can now do graphics (for many years they had no system wide color control), but they're still not up to Mac standards.

I might mention, before any of the PC guys start getting up in arms, that I have made my living as a commercial artist (illustrator and graphic designer), and I've worked on both platforms, as well as UNIX. My whole industry -- advertising, publishing, photo, printing, etc. -- runs on Macs. (( Registered Users cannot advertise on Bladeforums. ))

As to music, iTunes, which comes installed for free on your Mac will do almost any conversion that you require. It also comes with Garage Band if you want to do your own stuff. I can't give much more info on the music stuff. Perhaps someone else can.

Forget the myth of Macs being more expensive, too. That was true at one time, but now -- if you compare equivalent machines -- Macs are often actually less expensive than PC's. Sure, you can get PC's for a lot less money, but with a lot lower specs, too. Apple has no interest in competing at the low end WallyWorld $200 price point, because they couldn't offer the quality. Remember, cheap is cheap -- but not necessarily a value.

Hope this helps a little.
 
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dawsonbob said:
Forget the myth of Macs being more expensive, too. That was true at one time, but now -- if you compare equivalent machines -- Macs are often actually less expensive than PC's. Sure, you can get PC's for a lot less money, but with a lot lower specs, too. Apple has no interest in competing at the low end WallyWorld $200 price point, because they couldn't offer the quality. Remember, cheap is cheap -- but not necessarily a value.
Click to expand...
There are very few machines I would consider "equivalent" between PC and Mac.

For my part, I was looking for a new laptop that would be good for work as well as for portable computing. Ultimately, however, I realized that I could get a 15" dell laptop with a 1920x1200 screen (which I don't believe is available on Macs under $2000) and a 10" Eee netbook, for about the same price (~$1300) as a 13" Macbook.

Ultimately, it's what you need to use the computer for, that should dictate your preferences. If you want a carry queen, then a 10" Eee with Ubuntu Linux installed, will serve your needs significantly better, with its 8+ hour battery life, and a $400 price tag. It will also come pre-installed with everything that someone who is not a computing professional needs (office suite, photo editing, etc...). There are few things as atrocious as Microsoft Office for Macs... so if you MUST have MSOffice for work, that should be a consideration.

Some people find Macs more intuitive (my fiance does, and I am typing this on a Mac), but I do not. I find MacOS rather disorganized and lacking in customization options. Obviously, to many the latter seems like an advantage, due to the perceived simplicity. As a power user, however, I view it as a tradeoff - the seamless experience versus detailed customization (obviously Linux wins the customization battle, but Windows isn't THAT far behind).

Macs do have some marked advantages though:
1. They are simply the best-looking computers available. They have the cleanest lines, and the best design. I won't even try to argue there... although some of the other manufacturers have been taking lessons... but no one is quite there yet.
2. Macs have the best power management I have seen on any OS. They can consistently squeeze more life out of the same battery as their Windows counterparts (without some major customization) and their suspend/wake intervals are very far ahead from the competition.
 
I would have to agree on many of your points, gnius, but you kind of reinforced a couple of mine, too.

As far as equivalency goes, I'm used to working on the high end towers (business necessity). If you spec out a High end Mac and a Dell with the same set of specs (as near as possible), the Mac will, surprisingly to some, come out several hundred dollars less than the Dell. Actually, Macs tend to use higher quality components than the Dells, so the savings are potentially even greater. I can't speak to laptops so much, because I don't use them. I know that there are a couple of Windows laptops that are almost the same specs as the Macs, but they're about the same price, too.

I did say that you can get PCs for less than Macs, and that's true, although you're right; they're not equivalent machines. Which brings up another point you made with which I agree. I often tell people who ask to get a PC if all they're doing is email, surfing the web, gaming, etc, to simply get a cheap PC. Why spend the money for a lot of power they'll never use. I do a lot of high-end 3D illustration, so I need the horsepower (eight cores rock), but if you don't need it, don't pay for it.

As far as customization goes, I think you'll find that Macs have all the power you need under the hood, so to speak. Mac OS 10 is basically the Berkley Free Distribution of UNIX, with a simple face on it. The simplicity works well for 90 percent of the people who use Macs for most purposes but, if you like to tinker, it's highly modifiable, too. Remember, the Linux system you mentioned is a variant of UNIX, too. You can do all kinds of things with any UNIX variant that the common user wouldn't even understand.

If you like Windows, however, simply boot into Windows; any Mac can do it, giving you the best of both worlds.
 
I looked at mac PC's, and they Start at $2500 with no upgrades. You can get an equivalent windows machine for much less. There are lots of companies making windows based gaming rigs, and you can even make one yourself. That is the key difference- You can't buy a Mac from anyone but Mac. . . they sell based on lies ("Mac vs PC", etc.), and a carefully cultivated image, to a niche market. . . that is why they have such a tiny market share. They would not exist without the popularity of their iPods.
 
zenheretic said:
Well I have photoshop and just don't find it user friendly. It just seemed some Apple systems photo programs were more intuitive.

I know Photoshop has a ton of useful applications, it is just hard to figure it out on your own.
Click to expand...

I find Adobe products to be pretty intuitive, but I have been using them for a long while now. Never tried the more common Photoshop Elements limited functionality stuff. There are limitless tutorials available online to learn various tricks and techniques as well. When I used a Mac, I used the same Adobe programs I use on the Windows machines.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
I looked at mac PC's, and they Start at $2500 with no upgrades. You can get an equivalent windows machine for much less. There are lots of companies making windows based gaming rigs, and you can even make one yourself. That is the key difference- You can't buy a Mac from anyone but Mac. . . they sell based on lies ("Mac vs PC", etc.), and a carefully cultivated image, to a niche market. . . that is why they have such a tiny market share. They would not exist without the popularity of their iPods.
Click to expand...

Talk about lies and bias! You are so full of S**t.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
I can only assume you are addressing the Apple Marketing team.
Click to expand...

No, Mr. Finkenstein, I was addressing you. Were you honest about it, rather than spreading lies and misinformation, I would have let it go. I have no idea what gave you enough negative bias to lie about something like a computer, but that bias is certainly there.

Can't buy a Mac for less than $2500? The Mac Mini starts at only $599. The MacBook starts at only $999. The MacBook Pro starts at only $1,999. The big Mac Pro starts at $2,499. Certainly they go up from there, as does every manufacturer.

Can't be upgraded? You can get them with any number of processors (up to eight cores). You have your choice of Graphics cards. Don't like the one you choose? You can swap it out yourself later: it's a simple procedure. Want more ram? You can get the Mac Pro with up to 32 gigabytes of ram, although I wouldn't recommend it, since Apple's prices on ram really, really suck. Buy it from a third party instead, and put it in yourself: takes about two minutes. Macs are, in fact, highly configurable: the options are almost overwhelming.

All right, so you don't like Apple's advertising. So what? Just don't buy one. But don't lie about them either.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
I looked at mac PC's, and they Start at $2500 with no upgrades. You can get an equivalent windows machine for much less. There are lots of companies making windows based gaming rigs, and you can even make one yourself. That is the key difference- You can't buy a Mac from anyone but Mac. . . they sell based on lies ("Mac vs PC", etc.), and a carefully cultivated image, to a niche market. . . that is why they have such a tiny market share. They would not exist without the popularity of their iPods.
Click to expand...

I would argue that you can't get a comparable windows box because it's not from Apple.

I have had *zero* problems CS wise with Apple, and couldn't count on both hands and feet how many times I've been shuffled between Dell, Microsoft, and HP working out a software problem.

Apple works because everything is fit together by the same people. Imagine a knife that has the blade built by one company, the handle by another, and then sold by a third. Who would you call for warranty?

Apple's OS (Currently Leopard) is intuitive and easy to use, while still remaining powerful under the hood. Direct root access via sudo/terminal, full UNIX capabilities, and no crippling trial software bundled with the computer.

However, if you want to game, I'd go windows.
 
zenheretic said:
Well I have photoshop and just don't find it user friendly. It just seemed some Apple systems photo programs were more intuitive.

I know Photoshop has a ton of useful applications, it is just hard to figure it out on your own.

An MMO is a "massively multiplayer online" game. The most famous being WOW (which I wouldn't touch :barf:). MMOs use a lot of graphic power and and can really bog down when 50 to 100 players are all fighting at the same time in the same area...so it hogs a lot of resources.
Click to expand...

Adobe apps do have a bit of a learning curve, but once you get over that, they are pretty easy. iPhoto has some built in photo editing that should take care of whatever basic tasks you need done.

If you're going to play wow on a Mac, I'd recommend starting out with the tower (that $2.5k Mac Pro tower, yes) and sticking at least 8gb of ram in it. :D

Course, for simplicities sake, just get a Alienware box.
 
dawsonbob said:
No, Mr. Finkenstein, I was addressing you. Were you honest about it, rather than spreading lies and misinformation, I would have let it go. I have no idea what gave you enough negative bias to lie about something like a computer, but that bias is certainly there.

Can't buy a Mac for less than $2500? The Mac Mini starts at only $599. The MacBook starts at only $999. The MacBook Pro starts at only $1,999. The big Mac Pro starts at $2,499. Certainly they go up from there, as does every manufacturer.

Can't be upgraded? You can get them with any number of processors (up to eight cores). You have your choice of Graphics cards. Don't like the one you choose? You can swap it out yourself later: it's a simple procedure. Want more ram? You can get the Mac Pro with up to 32 gigabytes of ram, although I wouldn't recommend it, since Apple's prices on ram really, really suck. Buy it from a third party instead, and put it in yourself: takes about two minutes. Macs are, in fact, highly configurable: the options are almost overwhelming.

All right, so you don't like Apple's advertising. So what? Just don't buy one. But don't lie about them either.
Click to expand...

I am not lying. I was talking about their towers. Nothing I said was untrue. But hey, why let reality get in the way of your fanboyism?
 
I have near identical laptops (hardware). One is dual-core Dell and the other a dual-core Macbook Pro. I won't bore with the spec details as they basically identical. You can compare hardware all day long..how the OS functions on the hardware is equally as important as the hardware itself. I can set my Dell next to my Macbook Pro running the same version of Photoshop (CS3) and run a resource intensive task (gaussian blur) against the exact same .tiff file. The Mac destroys the Dell. There is no comparison. Open up a movie file on your PC and drag it quickly around your desktop...does the video or audio start to chop? Try it on a Mac. To compare PCs to Macs based simply on hardware and not OS performance on said hardware is a bit like covering one eye when trying to look through binoculars.
 
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