Apprentice and Logistics

If that's the direction you want to go why not buy a CNC mill? I don't mean to do things the way Aaron Gough does, but with some investment of time into some fixturing and tooling, a Fusion 360 account drip feeding/dnc to an older machine you could easily set the thing up to make a batch of guards over night or while you're at work. Then swap out fixtures to do pommels. Or liners. Or frames. Or whatever.

Start thinking about what assets are going to allow you to do from the perspective of time management. A CNC plasma that cuts stuff out by itself, and quickly, then requires you to manually clean all the edges and grind back the HAZ? A 3D printer that sits idle while you cast knife jewelry that now requires you to finish, polish, fit?

And you often pull out the "hand forged is synonymous with quality" soapbox. Will either of those machines accomplish much work for you while you're forging?

A mill could.
 
I agree, a cnc mill is more versatile than 3 D printing.


I think it will take a decade before positive printers are practical for us.

If you want production casting done, it can be outsourced if you have the volume.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
Keep in mind you probably don't have to hire them as an employee but you could hire them as a contractor ... Then 1099 them at the end of the year. I imagine this would eliminate things like workman's comp since they are technically working for them
self, not you
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The IRS is wise to this. If JT is (a) setting the time that the work is to be performed, and/or (b) providing the workspace and/or equipment, then the worker is an employee.

If the kid is doing work for JT in his (the kid's) own shop, on his own equipment, at the time of his choosing, then he is a contractor.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contractor-designation
 
JTknives said:
Now that gives me a second problem to deal with and that’s distribution. But there are ways to navigate around that and grow organically.
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Take "Nathan Carothers" production lines which he distributes through his own Forum on a First Come First Serve basis....He normally sells out a run of 20+/- knives in less than a minute or two...but then again it's only 20 of the same style with different handle material choices....If that is something that appeals to your production plans take a hard look at logistics of having the items ready with out handles that can be assembled in a couple of days with each customer getting the handle of choice.
 
Don’t get me wrong I’m 100% on bord with acquiring a cnc mill. Programming is not a problem for me as that was what I did in my past life (run and program cnc mills and laths). The problem is I have been spoiled with nice machines lol. But all joking aside it is something I would consider. The 3D printer is more for the custom stuff. And with the price of printers what thy are now it’s hard not to consider one. Sure it takes a long time to print things but it does it its self. It would not be used for production like I said. If I needed production on guards then yes cnc is the way to go. But it was just a thought. I allrrady use a plasma cutter for a lot of my cutting and not having to do it by hand would be a HUGE time saver. From cutting out blade blanks to cutting up stock for Damascus or metal sales it would save a lot of time.
 
See if you can make friends down at Hewes Marine. When i worked there the big perk was getting to use the shop for your own projects inculing ones that paid. One of the plasma guys might be able to run a big batch for you once a month.

I have thought that I could start something so long as I could get a few good guys. Then I start thinking that most of those guys are working. Then I think I could pay them more and then I add up what there benifits would cost . Then I lace up my boots and go back to doing a "real" job. I have had to pay my own benifits the past couple of years and and for what I would have called bad insurance 3 years ago is costing $20-25k. It's going to be hard to find someone good and keep them without insurance or a paycheck big enough to pay for it.
 
I know a guy that holds knife making classes when he needs help, looks for guys that are talented and interested.

Hoss
 
You currently charge about 1/3 as much as one of your competitors to heat treat a knife I believe. There’s probably room to increase your prices without fully driving off your business. You might lose some business, but if the demand is more than you can match that is probably a good thing. At your current price point the demand outpaces your ability to supply. If you can find the sweet spot where the pricing tempers the demand close to your ability to supply you will be at your maximum profitability point. If demand continues to outpace the ability to supply even with increased pricing, now you may be looking at revenues to justify expanding.

If you want to do production runs, consider what are the value add portions you should keep for yourself and what is commodity that you can outsource. The CNC work is probably a target to outsource. When you reach certain volumes and want to be able to stretch a better profit per product that’s when you can look to move the outsourced functions in house if doing so will allow a lower cost of goods sold. At that point you will have capital built to make that investment and you will have proven the business case to know the return you will get on your investment and what the time period will be to realize that return.
 
Personally a CNC plasma would never be on my list. I just finished setting up a big Grob vertical bandsaw in my shop, and with the right blade and speeds, and a work pusher that allows you to lean into it, cutting profiles is pretty damn fast. And running a 1/4" wide band, I can cut close enough that the only profile grinding needed is less than a minute with a 220 belt.
Not to mention how useful a saw like that is for any number of other things...

If I got to the volume where profiling that way was too slow, I'd outsource waterjet.
 
We use a plasma cutter for probably 2-3hrs a day stright. But this is mostly processing 15n20. This also includes cutting strips for Damascus. So the big draw for us with a cnc plasma is the reduction of tracing templates. This will alow us to lay out all the sheets and set zero and push go. Gives us more time to sort sheets and knock slag off. And running a water table will reduce the amount of slag and smoke in the shop. Black dust settles on everything and gets everywhere. But it also alowes faster prototyping in any quantity we need. I have around 8 years full time experance as a machinest running manual machines and cnc. I did all my own programming so I enjoy it. I would way rather sit inside on the computer then gluing paper templates to steel and profiling by hand. But having a cnc plasma adds another revenue stream I get requests for rather often. This is profiled 15n20 blades that are heat treated. Makes sence to customers becaus shipping is less because if thy outsource HT then I do it after profiling.
 
I would highly recommend a downdraft table over a water table.
 
DevinT said:
Two wives = two mother in laws.
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Just marry twins, then you won’t have this particular problem....

And heck if you can convince a set of twins to marry you, you probably won’t have to deal with in-laws at all, cause they will probably be disowned!!

What’s the downside?
 
You still have two wives and they can complete each other's nagging sentences? Ultimate tag team cage match and you have nobody to tag. :p
A.McPherson said:
Just marry twins, then you won’t have this particular problem....

And heck if you can convince a set of twins to marry you, you probably won’t have to deal with in-laws at all, cause they will probably be disowned!!

What’s the downside?
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A.McPherson said:
Just marry twins, then you won’t have this particular problem....

And heck if you can convince a set of twins to marry you, you probably won’t have to deal with in-laws at all, cause they will probably be disowned!!

What’s the downside?
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What about conjoined twins?
 
JTknives said:
I was going to add down draft to my plasma table that I do all the hand cutting
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We've run both water tables and (now) downdraft tables and downdraft is by far cleaner and less hassle. When we ran water tables you couldn't see from one end of the building to the other because of the steam, and eventually you have to get all that crud it does catch, out.
 
Thanks. I will go down draft. I have a really nice blower I was going to use so maybe that will work
 
go to local community college and see what kind of help they offer for small business. locally they have advisers who can answer most questions, like hiring part time help, or know who you need to call. they can also help with questions about liability insurance and related stuff.
 
JTknives said:
Thanks. I will go down draft. I have a really nice blower I was going to use so maybe that will work
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Worst case if for whatever reason the down draft doesn't work out you can weld a cover on the vent and fill it with water. Harder to turn a water table into a downdraft.

Then you don't need another table for manual cutting. Just move the gantry out of the way.
 
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