approximating infi

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manassas dragon

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Dec 3, 2009
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never even seen ,much less used a busse knife of any description and boy are they descriptive. so what available steel approximates infi in composition
and characteristics/ and is it worth the bother?
 
manassas dragon said:
never even seen ,much less used a busse knife of any description and boy are they descriptive. so what available steel approximates infi in composition
and characteristics/ and is it worth the bother?
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Take a look at this:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9325664&postcount=13

My understanding is that much of the performance is due to a complicated HT process. Quenching in blood of dragons and such. :rolleyes:

What would be interesting would be to see the results of their HT process on several "regular" carbon steels to see if the HT also causes something like 1095 or 5160 to out perform normal HT methods.
 
gga357 said:
Take a look at this:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9325664&postcount=13

My understanding is that much of the performance is due to a complicated HT process. Quenching in blood of dragons and such. :rolleyes:

What would be interesting would be to see the results of their HT process on several "regular" carbon steels to see if the HT also causes something like 1095 or 5160 to out perform normal HT methods.
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They use their HT on D2, SR101, and SR77
The last two are Modified 52100 and S7, respectively.
 
I like their knives and have owned some also. But, I think they also blow some hot air.
 
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Steel is steel. They heat treatment is what makes it superior. Busse has developed a fantastic heat treatment. Develop you own heat treat to match INFI performance and you might get rich. ;)
 
bigbcustom said:
I have heard that INFI is "modified" A8. No confirmation just rumor.
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Yes, you could say that.........
but S35VN is just "modified" D2 by the same rule.

If someone wants a super steel to play with and wants the extreme end, try:
Cowry X
Cowry Y
ZDP-189

The HT for these is not in many of our shops, so it will need to go to someone who does these steels.
 
Proof is in the pudding-which is why I collect Busse and Busse kin knives. The HT is exactly what all the hoopla is about. Even Swamp Rat (Busse kin company) uses SR101 and Scrap yard (SR77) SR7 are modified steels. I think Rat Fink's posts was accurate re: which steel they originate the process with. Whatever they are doing- for how they explain it- if you take a similar knife with a hardness or RC rating of 55-58 or 58-59, etc it will drastically outperform a competitors knife with the same hardness rating-as a result of their proprietary heat treat process. They even show the knives locked in a vise and the abillity to bend it out to amazing degress- and the knife always comes back to its true form. If you ever heard of the guys from Knife tests dot com. They test all kinds of knives- including Randall, BK, Kabars, Busse and everything else. Although the tests border insane-where they take said 500.00-1200.00 knives and try to chop concrete, wood etc- these tests are completely unbiased as they are not affiliated with any company- and even these guys are amazed by their own tests with the Busse blades.
 
From what I have read from the metallurgists, heat treatment is not magical. But is actually quite well understood. Steel manufacturers recommend a slightly basic heat treatment that many manufacturers can apply and get rather consistent results. An excellent heat treatment will go beyond these manufacturer specs and have better accuracy in time, temperatures, additional steps and better testing. But it is no secret. Some people favor knives that will stay sharp for a long time and some favor knives that will take all kinds of abuse.

I can't answer which steels approximate Infi, but you can search steels I think on matweb starting with similar carbon content and then chromium, etc. I think there are a couple reasonably close. A practical substitution seems to be CPM 3V. But it is not very similar in carbon content, etc. (but a very tough steel according to Crucible.)

Don't get me wrong, I am really amazed at INFI and would love to have some Busse's. But a little too much might be read into the word proprietary.



D
 
I dont have a dog on this tree really. Dont have anything for or against Busse but I have to wonder...What % of the knives even sold on this forum actually see an honest days work? 10%, probably less...I dont mean taken on a camping trip twice a year either..
Ive butchered more animals than I could ever possibly count (between being a lifelong farmer,hunter,trapper and fisherman) I cant ever remember really damaging a blade. maybe rolling the edge a little on a hogs head or some such but thats about it..
I just find it hard to see folks fasination with being able to chop cinder blocks with a knife....Nothing wrong with that mind you, I just dont really understand it..
These days people want a knife to be a scalpel, a pry bar, a hammer and a water saw rolled into one...
 
You should try learning about what you are talking about instead of posting misinformation and imaginary statistics. Most people are not obsessed with cinder blocks, the subject is just one of the common tactics trolls use to attack certain brands so it is often repeated, along with the sharpened pry bar nonsense.
 
No Im not trying to attack anyone..I dont care what anyone buys. Im not a troll either if thats what your thinking...Im not talking about busse in particular, Im making a generalized statement..I just had the oppurtunity. I never said most people, I said (folks)..Do you deny that there are folks out there that are obsessed with a knife being more than what it is? The 10% stat though not hard evidence of course is not one I came up with. Just one i had heard on several occasions across knife forums. Im not trying to argue with anyone.
 
I wasn't accusing you of being a troll.
Just saying the information you are posting has been endlessly repeated on the forums, where you picked it up no doubt. Along with the statistic. Some people make a point to run down good companies.

As far as people being obsessed with strange "tests" of knives, it happens. I don't understand it either.
 
Im not trying to run down Busse at all. From what I hear they are a fantastic knife..You'll never find a post where I have ran down a knife. Not one..As a occasional knife maker (Im a blacksmith) I have found that some people have unrelistic expectations of knives at times..Ive had questions like "Can I disjoint a elks hind leg with this knife?" well it has a 1/8' thick blade so I doubt it. "I was hammering it thru a deers spine with a ball peen hammer, why'd the blade break?" Thats absolutly true by the way...
Now of course not all or even half think like this, but some do..Ive heard it with my own ears..Thats where that information came from..
Im sorry if you took my post the wrong way..I didnt mean it that way.
I have to add "an honest days work" is most likely different to me than it is to most..Ive stood at a skinning table 4-6 hours a day, 4-5 days a week Nov-Feb plenty of times..Now Id say not to many knives will end up doing that will they..
 
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Kentucky said:
Im not trying to run down Busse at all. From what I hear they are a fantastic knife..You'll never find a post where I have ran down a knife. Not one..As a occasional knife maker (Im a blacksmith) I have found that some people have unrelistic expectations of knives at times..Ive had questions like "Can I disjoint a elks hind leg with this knife?" well it has a 1/8' thick blade so I doubt it. "I was hammering it thru a deers spine with a ball peen hammer, why'd the blade break?" Thats absolutly true by the way...
Now of course not all or even half think like this, but some do..Ive heard it with my own ears..Thats where that information came from..
Im sorry if you took my post the wrong way..I didnt mean it that way.
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I am sorry if you thought I was accusing you, it was not my intent. I was talking about how trolls seed the forums with disinformation. I didn't mean you.

As far as people abusing knives, I think it is a form of ignorance. When you learn about knives, you respect them more, and appreciate their finer qualities. You can also avoid damaging them. I wouldn't put much stress on the needle tip of a thin bladed slicer with full distal taper. Other people would try to open paint cans with it.
 
The closest alloy I have seen is my stock of A8mod, which I had analyzed. It is within 0.1% of the INFI specs listed here http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=1060,A8,INFI , but with 0.273% nickel instead of 0.95%, and my A8mod has barely any cobalt. The specs listed also show a question mark for silicon but my stock has .991% silicon added for toughness usually (personally I'd prefer the nickel but the steel was free for the $25 analysis). I can't make a statement about the nitrogen as I didn't order gas analysis.

Large users of steel commonly order their own modifications of steel recipes.

Is it worth the bother? Busse stand behind their product. It's up to you to decide if they are worth the money. Personally when I want tough I go with S-7, when I want extreme wear resistance I go with D-2, S30v, cpm154 at high hardness. I don't really like in-betweens, but there are many options there too.

I have only one Busse, a nuc fusion edc, and it never gets used because the edge is so thick it doesn't really cut anything. I hear the geometry is better on some of the bigger blades but the ones I examined at Blade were all pretty thick, which really suits the crowd around the booth (wait, I'm NOT saying the guys were thick! Just they probably feel the need for hard use, tough blades).

Whatever floats your boat.
 
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