approximating infi

They use their HT on D2, SR101, and SR77

If by "their HT" you mean the same HT process for all three steels, I doubt that very much. The alloys you listed are all quite different, and each will do best with specific austenizing temperatures, soak times, quenching techniques and so forth.

You should try learning about what you are talking about instead of posting misinformation and imaginary statistics.

Indeed.

On the other hand, if you meant Busse has developed a great HT regimen for each steel they use, that would make perfect sense.
 
and it never gets used because the edge is so thick it doesn't really cut anything. I hear the geometry is better on some of the bigger blades but the ones I examined at Blade were all pretty thick, which really suits the crowd around the booth (wait, I'm NOT saying the guys were thick! Just they probably feel the need for hard use, tough blades).

Every single blade on the table at the NY knife show had overly fat thick edges and didn't feel like they could do anything more then chop, certainly not cut things like a knife should, the norm with busse it seems. The funny part is I bet you could get alot of other steels to do the same or close enough to infi in performance using beefcake geometries like they do.
 
That's the experience I've had with them, but I've only played with, not owned. People constantly associate thickness with robustness, and in terms of "breakability" that's probably completely accurate, but even for, maybe especially for, effective chopping, intelligent edge profiles are a must in relative ratio to blade geometry. From the Busse I've seen, and all the really "stout" bomber knives I've seen as a general rule I think they miss that mark, but that's just my opinion. Although, FWIW, I practically live on the trail normally, probably baton more wood in a year than the average house burns in their stove, and I've run into more than one top tier chopper that's about equivalent to using blunt rebar in real world outdoors use.

From a combat perspective? I can't say, I think it depends a lot on your "perception" of how knife combat plays out.




I'd be really curious to see a Bark River knife that was made to the same dimensions as one of those Busse beasts compared in one of those torture testing regimes, since they're another company famous for their meticulous HT. Although I think their biggest knife is probably around the thickness of the smallest Busse. So it'd just be apples and oranges.


I really find some of the busse designs compelling, but I've never been able to justify buying any since I just don't think they're built for what I use knives for, even though there seems to be this prevailing myth that they're the best at everything, being proliferated by the fan-boys.
 
DISCLAIMER: I'm a thin-edge guy. I like knives (big or small) that CUT. Strong knives can and should be ground to cut well. Take a look at cutting competitions; those guys whack through everything from rope to 2x4's to water bottles in timed events. They simply couldn't compete with a clunky, thick edge. Slim, fast, sharp 3V- and M4-bladed knives by individual makers seem to take a very large majority of the winning spots in those competitions. Folks using "old-school" alloys like 1084 and 5160 also do quite well and have trophies to show for it. My point is, there are several alloys that perform extremely well when designed, built and HT'ed properly.

In the interest of fairness, I've read several user reviews where folks have touched up their Busse INFI knives for a much thinner, better-performing edge and they held up very well under similar tests. I won't speculate why Busse doesn't offer finer edges on their big knives; it seems clear the steel and HT is more than up to the task. Then again, I won't speculate why they favor coated blades when using a steel that's regarded as reasonably stain-resistant.

EDIT: screw it, yes I will speculate. It's cheaper to rough-grind a blade and coat it rather than finish it properly. It's also cheaper to walk it past a grinder and slap a sorta-kinda edge on it. There, I said it.

I'd love to test an INFI next to my factory-built Browning Crowell-Barker Comp Cutter ($150) and one of my own 3V knives; I'm pretty sure it would do very well... but I just can't justify paying hand-made prices for a factory-built knife with an edge I'll have to re-grind, just to get it on an even playing field sharpness-wise with a $150 knife or one I can build myself.

EDIT: you wanna chop through walls or cinder blocks, you don't need a knife. You need a jack-hammer and/or a SawZall.
 
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In case anyone thinks there might be a critical tone emerging in this thread... personally I'm envious of Busse's success and would like to emulate him, and I'd like to try making blades out of INFI and get them the Busse HT.

I think you can get them with thin edges but it's kinda special. I don't understand the website, seems like there's only ever 1 knife for sale...

again, I'm totally envious... not that I'd copy the designs, but I think the marketing is a monstrous success, the warranty is hard to improve on, and the metallurgy is sound
 
...again, I'm totally envious... not that I'd copy the designs, but I think the marketing is a monstrous success, the warranty is hard to improve on, and the metallurgy is sound

I completely agree. I'm not critical of the knives themselves, or Jerry himself per se; they are what they are, they do what they claim to do and I don't know of anyone saying they don't stand behind their products. I applaud that sincerely. They seem to move everything they can make, and more power to 'em.

...I don't understand the website, seems like there's only ever 1 knife for sale...

Me too. Guess we're not in the club. :rolleyes:

The blind worship, marketing hype, "ganzas", instant flipping of "special editions" etc etc does make me throw up in my mouth a little, especially when I can point to dozens of folks making equally strong, better-cutting, more available knives with more options. That nonsense has nothing to do with the knives themselves, it's more akin to speculating in oil futures.
 
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Lol, the fans are pretty rabid... I guess I'd like that kind of worship too, but sometimes the quiet, high quality of appreciation I receive from my clients is even better
 
Yeah, now that you mention it I went to the web site trying to see what models are available. People saying "I want to buy one of those," and "I can't wait to get one of the others". But there's only one model (and its "limited edition" for sale there. Confusing, to say the least. I guess they sell out of everything as soon as they release it. Oh well, I don't have a use for a combat knife anyway.
 
Every single blade on the table at the NY knife show had overly fat thick edges and didn't feel like they could do anything more then chop, certainly not cut things like a knife should, the norm with busse it seems. The funny part is I bet you could get alot of other steels to do the same or close enough to infi in performance using beefcake geometries like they do.

So you went to their table and examined every single blade. :rolleyes:

See what I said about trolls spreading misinformation? It doesn't take long for them to show up.
 
That is what I meant.

Thanks for clearing that up! I'm not surprised; from everything I've read it seems clear that Jerry and co. are committed to using excellent steel and making the most of it. :thumbup:

Perhaps you have links to, or pics of large Busse knives with thinner edges than we typically see? I would honestly love to see them.
 
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In response to the original question posed, may I suggest that you heft a Busse product, check the grind lines and finish etc. I have used (and abused) a Basic 9 for the better part of the last six years. The black coating is now totally worn off and the handle is far from pristine condition. This knife has been sharpened on a hard Arkansas, ceramic stick and even touched up on the odd end rock in the woods. This knife behaves like one of my 5160 customs.
 
So you went to their table and examined every single blade. :rolleyes:

See what I said about trolls spreading misinformation? It doesn't take long for them to show up.

It's obvious enough after handling a couple to notice the rest at a glance. I'm no troll, take a look at my reputation, I am kind of offended you would even suggest it. Point me to the misinformation in my post please.

I agree with Will Nease, Jerry know's how to run a business, but agree more with James in that all of the hype and marketing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 
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Sam most of us know who you are, at least from forum experience.

Rat it seems like you've been looking for a fight most of this thread. The rest of us are not. I don't mind contradictory points of view but you seem to be trying to do something other than discuss the topic.

William
 
I dont have a dog on this tree really. Dont have anything for or against Busse but I have to wonder...What % of the knives even sold on this forum actually see an honest days work? 10%, probably less...I dont mean taken on a camping trip twice a year either..
Ive butchered more animals than I could ever possibly count (between being a lifelong farmer,hunter,trapper and fisherman) I cant ever remember really damaging a blade. maybe rolling the edge a little on a hogs head or some such but thats about it..
I just find it hard to see folks fasination with being able to chop cinder blocks with a knife....Nothing wrong with that mind you, I just dont really understand it..
These days people want a knife to be a scalpel, a pry bar, a hammer and a water saw rolled into one...

I only have more swamp rats and scrap yards than I can count but I only have one Busse and It is one of the most used knife I have. I only bought it because I love the kukri blade shape for its chopping power but don't like the looks of traditional Kuk's like HI. If the swamp or scrap yard ever puts out a kukri I would sell my KZ in a heartbeat and go for the busse kin blade that is half the cost and 95% of the performance. But all in all INFI really is pretty amazing. The factory edges do suck but once you thin out the edge they perform wonderfully. What I love most about INFI is it's stain resistance. Is really nice to be able to leave a knife with some sap on it and not have it rust in 2o min. I could have bought 4 cold steel SK5 kukri's for the same price but they don't have a warranty, don't hold an edge well, and have a stick tang that could break with hard usage. having a blade I know won't fail gives me peace of mind when I use it for tough tasks. Busse's warranty gives me no qualms about using their products.

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Sam! Unemployed and now a Troll?! What gives? Get out of this downward spiral!
 
Sam, there's an unmanned bridge near my house... shoot me an email if you're interested in the position. Bring your own knife :D
 
Sam most of us know who you are, at least from forum experience.

Rat it seems like you've been looking for a fight most of this thread. The rest of us are not. I don't mind contradictory points of view but you seem to be trying to do something other than discuss the topic.

William

Not looking for anything. There are facts, and then there is thinly veiled jabs at a good company with broad brush generalizations and untruths.
 
Not looking for anything. There are facts, and then there is thinly veiled jabs at a good company with broad brush generalizations and untruths.

I see nothing in this thread other than honest straightforward questions. I certainly don't see anyone disparaging Busse knives as a company; we've all agreed they make a good product and stand behind it.

Since you've taken it upon yourself to "stand up" for the supposedly much-maligned knives in question (by the way, I don't think Busse and co. need you to stick up for them; they seem to be doing just fine all on their own), perhaps you have something other than snotty comments to back up your decidedly unclear position? Pics? Links? Anything?

Rat, I promised myself (and others, privately) that I wouldn't fall for this nonsense again... but I can't help but notice you never contribute to this sub-forum except when you think someone is piling on Busse. No one is bitching about Busse! Many of us prefer a different style, and are happy to provide examples of other knives that perform as well or better, that's all. So what?

What's your beef? What's your point, for that matter? Incidentally, what's your name?
 
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