approximating infi

Interesting thoughts here. I think most of us would agree that if you take 100 knife enthusiasts and ask them what they want a knife to do and what they expect a knife to be you'd get groups that fall in to several buckets. I even have different desires for a knife now than I did awhile back at a Marine. And I have different requirements for what I'd for example display, keep in my bug out bag, take camping etc. Right tool for the job and I am not sure any knife at at time in my life would fulfill all my needs. But I do try to buy a knife that fits in to one of my buckets of requirements.

I'd say a Busse knife would be an excellent piece of gear to have in combat. Many of us know that taking a knife to the field in the military ends up having a wide variety of roles. When you are already humping your life around on your back, body armor, rifle, sidearm, ammo, extra gear like water cans or ammo or whatever you rarely feel the need to add to that weight by carrying 10 different knives.

The Busse Steel Heart Variant that I own.. I bet that would serve me well in combat. Swing it at your opponents head and whether you hit him with the sharp side or the wide side you are gonna hurt that f**ker. Maybe more with the sharp side. Taking up position in in a mud hut and you'd like an extra observation port? I bet that knife would make a nice hole in some AFG unimproved structure. Stole some cans of whatever from some army guys? Busse can open it. I could go on but you get the point from my perspective as a fighting knife it really isn't lacking in my opinion. But that same knife may not skin a buck too well, run a trot line or fillet my fish after I have caught it. Wouldn't use to clean under my finger nails etc. but for a fighting knife moar is bettah.

Those crazy knife tests they do? I imagine they serve many purposes. Entertain you so you watch it. What is more exciting and entertaining chopping something up or handing it to my mom and asking her for her opinion? Well it might be entertaining for my mom to hold it and have no clue what to say but chopping something is more fun. Bending it is obviously a test that knife makers have done for a long time to test their blades, right?

In short the guy has a proprietary steel which really only means he thought it up, designed it, tested it, perfected it and made it his. Is it the bestest? I don't know but I have never made my own steel before.

Like all things if a Busse knife isn't your bag fine. Think it is hype? Prove it. But even if I didn't know first hand how good they are as a knife enthusiast I'd still like them. About the only type of knife I don't like are cheap wall hangers and fantasy blades.
 
james terrio said:
Perhaps you have links to, or pics of large Busse knives with thinner edges than we typically see? I would honestly love to see them.
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I don't know what you "typically see." These came like this from the factory, and the second one (a Swamp Rat) was later resharpened by Jerry to an even thinner angle.
NMFBMLE42-1.jpg

Daddy2.jpg


I do know that you can order a knife with whatever type of edge you want, and if you are dissatisfied, they will fix it for you.
I have owned knives with a variety of edge thicknesses. Some better than others. The worst edge geometry I have ever had on a knife was on a Himalayan Imports Khukuri. But I am not about to let that experience color my opinion of all their products.
 
james terrio said:
I completely agree. I'm not critical of the knives themselves, or Jerry himself per se; they are what they are, they do what they claim to do and I don't know of anyone saying they don't stand behind their products. I applaud that sincerely. They seem to move everything they can make, and more power to 'em.



Me too. Guess we're not in the club. :rolleyes:

The blind worship, marketing hype, "ganzas", instant flipping of "special editions" etc etc does make me throw up in my mouth a little, especially when I can point to dozens of folks making equally strong, better-cutting, more available knives with more options. That nonsense has nothing to do with the knives themselves, it's more akin to speculating in oil futures.
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What Mr Busse gets for his knives is based on what he asks (his math), and the perceived value based on many things especially how much the guy desires it, what it means to him and what he can afford.

So that is my point, so my question is this. Why is Busse getting the money he gets for his knives, any different than any other product? Capitalism is a wonderful thing. Someone will pay only what THEY think the item is worth.

I think we all agree that Mr Busse is not lying about what he makes, it is of good quality and he delivers when folks pay.

What YOU would pay for the knife is totally irrelevant it what others will pay. That is how capitalism works if you can find a better or equal knife for less and don't want a Busse have at it.
 
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Rat Finkenstein said:
Not looking for anything. There are facts, and then there is thinly veiled jabs at a good company with broad brush generalizations and untruths.
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The facts are that these people, some here who MAKE knives, have all experienced Busse grinding their blades too thick. I have no experience with Busse proper but I can tell you that the 3 Swamp Rats that have passed my hands have ALL been ground too thick. They can baton fine but trying to cut something like a vegetable and I reach for something else. What more facts do I need other than owning and using 3 knives by the same company and having none of them work for me? Busse's are good and have great steel and heat treat but I'm not sure why you need to jump on anyone who has something negative to say especially when the negative thing is IMO a flaw in design. Don't even get me started on finger choils lol...
 
Shotgun said:
The facts are that these people, some here who MAKE knives, have all experienced Busse grinding their blades too thick. I have no experience with Busse proper but I can tell you that the 3 Swamp Rats that have passed my hands have ALL been ground too thick. They can baton fine but trying to cut something like a vegetable and I reach for something else. What more facts do I need other than owning and using 3 knives by the same company and having none of them work for me? Busse's are good and have great steel and heat treat but I'm not sure why you need to jump on anyone who has something negative to say especially when the negative thing is IMO a flaw in design. Don't even get me started on finger choils lol...
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Quite the sample size.

You might want to read what was written in the thread.
 
catchindirtbags said:
What Mr Busse gets for his knives is based on what he asks (his math), and the perceived value based on many things especially how much the guy desires it, what it means to him and what he can afford.
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I agree completely. Busse makes great knives, I've never disputed that. They make a dollar selling them, that's a good thing!

catchindirtbags said:
I think we all agree that Mr Busse is not lying about what he makes, it is of good quality and he delivers when folks pay.
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Yup, I agree. I have NO PROBLEM with that and I've said so. Your point is?

Their marketing and fan-club makes me want to puke. Other people make equally great knives without the hype. It's entirely my decision to buy thier knives or not, and I already said that too. So your point is...?

One more time... Busse knives aren't my particular cup of tea. I don't buy them. I'm certain their products are high quality, and I don't give a flying leap at a rolling donut whether anyone else buys them or not. So what?
 
Ah, it's my bedtime now... I love reading these threads before bed! A guy asks a simple question and people get all huffy, makes me chuckle. Right up there with the recent "arcane methods" thread on the humor scale...

Hey Sam, I live in Portland, the city of bridges - I would imagine you could easily find one here uninhabited! Maybe you should give the west coast a try! Seriously, you being called a troll made me actually laugh out loud... Looks like somebody needs to do a little homework before posting!
 
james terrio said:
DISCLAIMER: I'm a thin-edge guy. I like knives (big or small) that CUT. Strong knives can and should be ground to cut well. Take a look at cutting competitions; those guys whack through everything from rope to 2x4's to water bottles in timed events. They simply couldn't compete with a clunky, thick edge. Slim, fast, sharp 3V- and M4-bladed knives by individual makers seem to take a very large majority of the winning spots in those competitions. Folks using "old-school" alloys like 1084 and 5160 also do quite well and have trophies to show for it. My point is, there are several alloys that perform extremely well when designed, built and HT'ed properly.

In the interest of fairness, I've read several user reviews where folks have touched up their Busse INFI knives for a much thinner, better-performing edge and they held up very well under similar tests. I won't speculate why Busse doesn't offer finer edges on their big knives; it seems clear the steel and HT is more than up to the task. Then again, I won't speculate why they favor coated blades when using a steel that's regarded as reasonably stain-resistant.

EDIT: screw it, yes I will speculate. It's cheaper to rough-grind a blade and coat it rather than finish it properly. It's also cheaper to walk it past a grinder and slap a sorta-kinda edge on it. There, I said it.

I'd love to test an INFI next to my factory-built Browning Crowell-Barker Comp Cutter ($150) and one of my own 3V knives; I'm pretty sure it would do very well... but I just can't justify paying hand-made prices for a factory-built knife with an edge I'll have to re-grind, just to get it on an even playing field sharpness-wise with a $150 knife or one I can build myself.

EDIT: you wanna chop through walls or cinder blocks, you don't need a knife. You need a jack-hammer and/or a SawZall.
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I have more Busse knives than any sane man should have simply because I like them. Most are shelf queens :o

However, I do have some users and I must admit that the users (in particular the smaller knives) have been thinned down by me at the business end to make them good cutters. I also like thin knives :D,

There is no doubt that most busse models are thick but that some how appeals to me........... Go figure :confused:
 
Well, I guess the easiest way to provide an appropriate cross section of measurements would be... to measure them!

5594604569_38b58f2362_b.jpg


All measurements were mic'd .050" behind the edge.

From top to bottom:

A fighter/chopper I'm working on: .015"

Busse Badger ATAC SE: .045"

Ontario 18" machete that I re-spray painted to keep the rust down: .030"

... and for further consideration, my Estwing camp axe:

5595209602_cffb1a7347_b.jpg


The axe mic'd at .030"
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Well, I guess the easiest way to provide an appropriate cross section of measurements would be... to measure them!


All measurements were mic'd .050" behind the edge.

From top to bottom:

A fighter/chopper I'm working on: .015"

Busse Badger ATAC SE: .045"

Ontario 18" machete that I re-spray painted to keep the rust down: .030"

... and for further consideration, my Estwing camp axe:

The axe mic'd at .030"
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Which one was the camp axe???:rolleyes::rolleyes::cool:

Seriously though Nobody said they are bad knives, etc. And Sam a Troll?:eek: I second Portland's bridges, And we have Saturday Market where they sell handmade items under one, Sam could set up shop!
 
Yes, Matt... thanks for the data. One thing, though... you forgot to measure a pry bar. ;)
 
Just to answer a few questions I noticed while reading this thread...

The reason you usually only see one knife on the busse site is because they only offer them once. They come up and stay for awhile, then it's gone and the next one arrives. There is a huge after market, which is why you see people still mentioning the knives they are going to get or want long after the fact. Check out the busse/swamprat/scrapyard for sale thread.

Busse knives do have thick edges, but not always. There are a lot of designs with thin edges that make great slicers. For instance, currently the boss jack models come in two variations. The CG or combat grade is .220 thick, while the le "Limited edition" model is .180.

Busse does have a lot of fans, me among them. We can get fired up about the knives, but a large part of that is the community there is. Busse actively engages their customers on the forums, and takes input and produces designs sometimes suggested by that community.

If you haven't handled or used one, it's worth giving it a try as there is always someone willing to buy on the aftermarket should you decide the knives aren't for you.
 
Hey, JoshuraHOG, I recognize that avatar... i just watched The Devil's Rejects last weekend.
 
james terrio said:
I agree completely. Busse makes great knives, I've never disputed that. They make a dollar selling them, that's a good thing!



Yup, I agree. I have NO PROBLEM with that and I've said so. Your point is?

Their marketing and fan-club makes me want to puke. Other people make equally great knives without the hype. It's entirely my decision to buy thier knives or not, and I already said that too. So your point is...?

One more time... Busse knives aren't my particular cup of tea. I don't buy them. I'm certain their products are high quality, and I don't give a flying leap at a rolling donut whether anyone else buys them or not. So what?
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If you don't care then why such strong commentary? Couldn't you get your point across without saying things like their marketing and fan club want to make me puke? Is it hype or is it marketing? Is the success in part because of the marketing/hype? Do others that you are talking about not have "hype"/marketing because they can't afford to do it at the same level or is it because while they like making knives they don't particularly like to sell them? Part of a successful plan is marketing whether it is viral, word of mouth, guerrilla, commercials, etc. So it seems like you are angry at them (due to your wording) because they have generated a successful marketing strategy.

Man that is just business. Does anyone think the Shamwow which is made by Germans BTW REALLY lives up to that crazy ass commercial they do? Do people think that by slipping the shamwow into that whole German engineering world is accurate? I don't think German engineering or manufacturing prowess is why that product is successful.

And reality is some companies love it if you spend a moment on a forum sniping at their product. they lives by the any discussion about their product is at least getting the name out there.

I think you'd have an easier time convincing people that you are just commenting if the wording wasn't so harsh. you may truly not care at all about the Busse knives or brand but your words certainly sow something different. I am not defending them as a fan boy, I just think that they have a successful strategy, and it seems as though they have a very high rate of customer satisfaction. And being in the business world I certainly can appreciate a manufacturer excelling in both areas.

Someone in a previous post mentioned that if they were to cut a vegetable they'd choose another knife so would I because I like the right tool for the job. And I can honestly say that in my limited Busse experience I have not seen a knife they make that screams kitchen cutlery. But I don't buy fighting knives for that purpose so it is fine with me. Hell I don't even buy fighting knives anymore for fighting I buy them mostly because I like em a lot...
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Quite the sample size.

You might want to read what was written in the thread.
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You're right. I should continue to buy knife after knife until I find one that might be ground right. Yes what was I thinking. 100 percent of the products I bought were flawed but you're right, I should keep buying. Maybe that's why people buy multiple Busses.:rolleyes:
 
catchindirtbags said:
So it seems like you are angry at them (due to your wording) because they have generated a successful marketing strategy.
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Not at all, I've said it before and I'll say it again: more power to 'em!

It's morbidly fascinating how many people will get their dander up and leap to the "defense" of a company that is doing just fine, and isn't under "attack" in the first place.
 
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