AR upper advice?

Dont forget to look at Sabre Defense!

Lots of people have great things to say about them.
 
XD45 said:
I just saw an ad for piston rifles from them so I would hazard to guess they have uppers available sometime soon. Their piston rifles are shipping Dec. 1 according to their site.

http://www.stagarms.com/index.php
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I emailed them about the Stag Gas Piston Uppers (only) and I was told that the uppers would b available in the summer (2010). Did you see the bolt carrier mod (against tilt)?
 
RancidSumo said:
I don't mean to offend but this is really poor advice. The finish on a rifle like this doesn't matter one bit. My BCM lower has a purpleish hue to it and the upper is black. As soon as you stop fondeling it and start shooting it, you won't even notice. You should be focusing on whether or not the parts are mil-spec, which many brands are not.

Check out this site for expert advice on everything AR related.
http://www.m4carbine.net

Other manufacturers to look at besides BCM are Colt, LMT, Noveske, LaRue, and Daniel Defense.
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You are 99% wrong here. 99% of all manufactures are 99% within the same exact spec when dealing with the upper and lower recievers. Infact the millspec blueprints are available free online and any a-hole with a CNC and CAD/CAM programming can produce a milspec reciever. I dont think NOVESKE even makes their own recievers. I believe they are a barrel manufacturer and contract out the rest.

I'm in no way an "expert" but I have built six AR-15's including a lefty using Stag parts for my dad (to the stag lefty guy above, I agree, they make great stuff and are California approved) and two Armalite Ar-10's. The point I am trying to make is 99% of the difference between the "receivers only" is finish quality. If you mount a hard anodized coated upper to a teflon coated lower its going to look odd and it will deminish the resale value of the rifle. What makes an AR accurate is the trigger system, the barrel/chamber and the optics. If you are buying a "complete" lower then buy it for funtion over form, but if you are "building it", then there is no reason to buy an upper receiver that doesn't match your lower.

I wouldn't invest in head space guages just yet. I have them and they are nice to have to check the specs, but if you are buying a complete upper it has already been checked before leaving the factory. Besides, buying a go, no-go and field gauges gets expensive. They aren't exactly cheap. If you do build your own, just take it to a local gun smith and have him check it for you, because if it is out of spec, most likely the chamber will need reamed and he can do that for you. Most likely you will find out that 9 out of 10 builds will be within spec, but that one time out of spec could be disasterous. KA-BOOM :)

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bi...-16-vtac&cat=68&page=1&search=&since=&status=

This looks like a nice upper in your price range and it's in stock. I like the handguard becuse you can mount the rails when and where you want them, it is free float, it has a cool flash hider, it comes with good quality back up iron sights "BUIS." BUIS aren't cheep. Good ones cost $100-$200 range. And it has a "auto" bolt carrier which just means that it is heavier duty used in full auto M4's.

When buying a complete upper, you have to look at what things you might want to upgrade. There is no reason to pay for parts twice. Thats why I prefer to build them because you dont pay for stuff that you dont want.
 
I think it looks like a great one! except for one thing. It has a 14.5" barrel so in order for it to be a legal 16" barrel they permanently attach the flash hider to the barrel. IMO you would be better off with a full 16" barrel and a removable flash hider.

Like this one: same "lite" line as the one you are looking at except with a full 16.1" barrel.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bi...lrlp-556&cat=48&page=1&search=&since=&status=

BTW, what lower are you mounting this to?
 
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Its going on a stag lower until magpul makes lower, but I may buy a seconds noveske on sale and use the stag as a spair.

What's the benefit of having a removable flash hinder?
 
iggyd said:
What's the benefit of having a removable flash hinder?
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Flexibility.

It makes it easier to change things on the barrel (front sight, etc.), swap into a different flash hider, or potentially add a supressor.

IMHO it's worth the slightly longer overall length.
 
The point I am trying to make is 99% of the difference between the "receivers only" is finish quality.
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Ummm, no. Look at the chart linked on the previous page. Manufacturers use the wrong steels, don't stake their gas key/castle nut, don't have M4 feed ramps, and use the wrong barrel twist for a fighting rifle (1/7 is correct, 1/9 isn't).

The OP stated he was looking at complete uppers so he needs to look at reputable manufacturers. Even if he was looking at stripped uppers, I would still recommend getting one from a manufacturer that takes the time to get their parts in spec. Don't take my word for it though, I am no expert. Go read what the real experts on http://www.m4carbine.net have to say on the subject.
 
I just realized that this thread NEEDS pics. Here are a couple of my BCM build.

073.jpg

075.jpg

And, of course, just the upper.
GEDC0487.jpg

GEDC0486.jpg


As you can see in the first two pics, the finish does not match. It doesn't bother me one bit since this rifle will be tossed around, beat up, and have thousands of rounds sent through it. The finish isn't bad looking at all, it simply is a different shade of black on the lower than on the upper. The upper is the true black part and it matches up with my brother's BM rifle so since you are just looking for an upper, even that shouldn't matter.

ETA: Despite what the target in the pics suggests, this rifle is not inaccurate. That target was me practicing hammer drills left handed (I need more practice).
 
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I don't want to turn this into a heated debate. I just wanted to know if there are complete AR uppers that are DI with quality matching/better than noveske within a price range.

Thanks for all the input so far and thanks for the pics!!
 
If your looking at Stag I think this what your looking for. You can get it here for $504-that's a complete upper with BCG and CH and that price includes shipping-
ar15sa.fatcow.com That's were I got my last upper.Good Luck !
 
iggyd said:
I don't want to turn this into a heated debate. I just wanted to know if there are complete AR uppers that are DI with quality matching/better than noveske within a price range.

Thanks for all the input so far and thanks for the pics!!
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I don't know about better but from what I have read (I have no personal experience with Noveske) apart from the barrel, most other tier one and two manufacturers will be about on par with them.

If you really want to spend $1500 on an upper, you should also check out KAC.
 
RancidSumo said:
Ummm, no. Look at the chart linked on the previous page. Manufacturers use the wrong steels, don't stake their gas key/castle nut, don't have M4 feed ramps, and use the wrong barrel twist for a fighting rifle (1/7 is correct, 1/9 isn't).

The OP stated he was looking at complete uppers so he needs to look at reputable manufacturers. Even if he was looking at stripped uppers, I would still recommend getting one from a manufacturer that takes the time to get their parts in spec. Don't take my word for it though, I am no expert. Go read what the real experts on http://www.m4carbine.net have to say on the subject.
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Everything you have just listed has NOTHING to do with the receiver with the exception of the feedramps however most manufacturers make them with or without, your choice. I realize my advise was directed at the idea of building the upper vs buying a complete upper posted before he made what he wanted clear, and I really do think that what you are saying is true when buying a complete upper, however it doesn't make my advise any less true.

If he was building an upper, than he should buy the receiver to match. Then he could buy a barrel with the correct rifle twist to match the weight of the ammo he is planning on shooting ETC. Every company I know, if a receiver is out of spec, they either scrap them or sell them as seconds and explain why its a second so you know what you are buying. I actually have a NOVESKE receiver that is out of spec and I bought it as seconds. If you have a list of manufacturers that are out of spec, please share. I would honestly like to know who to stay away from.

The manufactures I have experience with and have had no fittiment issues are: Stag, Noveske, Spikes Tactical, Mega Machine Shop, Delton, CMMG and Rock River Arms.

IGGY: dont get the 14.5. Trust me that 16" is short enough. I'd even try and talk you into going with 18" mid length becuase you would probable enjoy it more in the long run, however definatly dont do the 14.5" because you will want to be able to work on your own rifle and maybe switch to a different flash hider, or take the gas block off inorder to install a piston system later down the road. You need to remove the flash hider to do that on a Noveske. (BTW, the noveske gas block are a batch to get off.) And yes, even the permanently attached flash hiders can be removed, but as soon as you do it, you are now in violation of a federal, go to jail and do time, crime.


Noveske barrel and low profile gas block: With the flash hider attached, you wont be able to slide the gas block off.
cat8_0.jpg
 
To spend 1500 on any AR upper, IMO LWRC is hard to beat (other than an HK 416 upper= $4-5K). I realize you want an DI not gas piston. Get a BCM upper, they do make great AR parts/uppers. I use BCM complete bolts and Bushmaster bbls with my builds. Honestly, if your just going to plink away, DSA has lowers (w/out bc group) advertised for $280, you can always buy this and use to train and learn about ARs (and use some $ for ammo to practice, or a .22 LR upper is a great way to practice ). After some reading and research, buy what ever AR you decide, be an educated consumer, dont listen to whats cool. I read an article in Guns & Weapons and someone wrote that its better to buy a cheaper gun and lots of ammo to practice than to spend alot of money on a gun with no ammo, that you will never fire. Something to think about, Good luck, and have fun.
http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-ZM4-Forged-7075T6-A3-AR15-Upper-Receiver---DSZM4CBU/productinfo/DSZM4CBU/
 
Iggyd, go to whiteoakarmament.com or Northern Competition and take a look. There uppers are good enough to win at camp perry and do about anything else you will want it to do. John has been in the AR game WAY before it was tacticool and REALLY KNOWS how to make them shoot. I think the upper your looking at is a total rip-off to be honest. Get a gun made by real shooters.
 
Thanks for all the input! I am really going to look at all the links posted. it a lot of money for me, but I want to make sure that I get my moneys worth, just like RAT knives :)

Its just hard to get a straight answer on anything gun related...
 
I'd check out Larue Tactical. They make 3 different uppers and I believe they are all DI. Everything they make is first class.
 
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