AR upper advice?

Seriously, do yourself a huge favor and go to http://www.m4carbine.net. There are several experts on the forum, writers for SWAT, and professional trigger pullers. They can show you the light.

So please explain to us WHY those AR upper mentioned ie). Stag, Bushmaster, Noveske, Sabre or any other AR15 upper noted are less than ideal based on your research (and of course the knowledge of professional trigger pullers) from M4carbine ?

What do you mean "Use the wrong twist for a fighting rifle"?

Also, What does LaRue have to do with Dick Swan (honestly, I don’t know, please explain, I heard about ARMS & Troy lawsuit)?
 
So please explain to us WHY those AR upper mentioned ie). Stag, Bushmaster, Noveske, Sabre or any other AR15 upper noted are less than ideal based on your research (and of course the knowledge of professional trigger pullers) from M4carbine ?

What do you mean "Use the wrong twist for a fighting rifle"?

Also, What does LaRue have to do with Dick Swan (honestly, I don’t know, please explain, I heard about ARMS & Troy lawsuit)?

See the chart linked on the first page. There is nothing wrong with Noveske. If I had the money, I'd buy a 10" Noveske.

Wrong twist is referring to the 1/9 twist of many AR manufacturers. From the information I have gathered from the folks at M4C, 1/7 is a much better twist rate because it allows you to shoot everything from 55gr to 75gr just fine. I also have been able to shoot some 45gr varmint bullets out of mine (not all types of the super light rounds will work in a 1/7). The 1/9 will not stabilize the upper weight rounds which are better suited for "social work".

As to Dick Swan, he is suing LaRue because he used the numbers 1 and 7 in his product numbers. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39961
 
Most of the reputable names have already been listed-I love my Wilson UT-15 though... and the Viking Tactical package is tits.
 
Last edited:
See the chart linked on the first page. There is nothing wrong with Noveske. If I had the money, I'd buy a 10" Noveske.

Wrong twist is referring to the 1/9 twist of many AR manufacturers. From the information I have gathered from the folks at M4C, 1/7 is a much better twist rate because it allows you to shoot everything from 55gr to 75gr just fine. I also have been able to shoot some 45gr varmint bullets out of mine (not all types of the super light rounds will work in a 1/7). The 1/9 will not stabilize the upper weight rounds which are better suited for "social work".

As to Dick Swan, he is suing LaRue because he used the numbers 1 and 7 in his product numbers. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39961

I read about the lawsuit, which seems like alot of BS.
BUT, what I have read on M4 is there is nothing wrong with any of the ARs out there for the avg. guy whose is not in combat, and who doesn’t need to practice with a few hundred rounds of ammo a week (as part of their job). That said, should someone that knows nothing about ARs (& for a first AR) buy a top shelf military spec rifle that will sit in his closet? Or, buy an AR that can be UPGRADED, and some ammo to practice to go along with it (so that he is proficient at shooting, and not just posting pics of his mint rifle?? It seems alot of the folks posting advice base their recommendations on personal preferences rather than practical application, or just regurgitate what others say.
 
Here is what I found on M4 website about bbl. twist rate (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=756&page=2)

"Well it depends on several things. For instance, a 1/7 twist barrel shoots 55gr ammo very well to about 100yds. Past that we see the groups open up a lot. Same with the 1/9 twist barrels. At about 100yds, 75/77gr ammo does pretty well, but as you go farther out, your group sizes can open up.

So if you want to shoot heavier grain bullets at distances over 100yds, stick with a 1/7 twist barrel (which is what I shoot)."


So does 1/7 offer better over all stabilization over 1/9, with all bullet weights? Or does this have to do with what types of ammo that will be fired (and/or what ammo is available out there)?
Just another question, what do you shoot?
 
@ post 44

We are talking the difference of a couple hundred dollars out of >$1000. The OP was talking about spending $1500 on just an upper so I assumed that the extra $200 to get a rifle like a Colt, DD, LMT, or BCM would not break the bank. It is my opinion that if you can afford it, you might as well buy quality the first time so you don't have to upgrade or if you decide to get more serious about shooting, you have a rifle that will be up to the task.

@ post 45

I shoot a lot of 55gr because that is what is available around here and my 1/7 with a RDS will put them all in a 1g paint can at 200 all day long. When I can get my hands on it, I buy the 68gr or 75gr pills because it is a bit more accurate with them and I like them to buck the Wyoming wind. I also keep 75gr Hornady TAP on hand as HD ammo (twist for that purpose really doesn't matter though since any of them will be able to hit a person at hallway distance).

Another thing to keep in mind regarding cost is that some lower tier ARs won't feed WOLF. My brother's Bushmaster and many other BMs and DPMS guns I have seen at the range won't shoot it. The stores around here even warn everyone who is buying it that it probably will not feed in an AR. That isn't a problem with my BCM though. I have put ~300rds of WOLF of all types though it (over the course of about 2-3 weeks) and it never paused (all that with a H buffer and no cleaning). This allows me to buy cheap practice ammo while my brother has to spend another 1-2 dollars a box to get ammo that he can shoot. I know that I don't have the round count to make my opinion as qualified as some others but in 2 months I put ~1000rds down the pipe with no problems so my sample of one works great.
 
For a first build I would suggest a RRA, Bushmaster, Stag, or CMMG. Now if you got the money to blow on a Noveske or a Larue.......why the funk not!
 
@ post 44

We are talking the difference of a couple hundred dollars out of >$1000. The OP was talking about spending $1500 on just an upper so I assumed that the extra $200 to get a rifle like a Colt, DD, LMT, or BCM would not break the bank. It is my opinion that if you can afford it, you might as well buy quality the first time so you don't have to upgrade or if you decide to get more serious about shooting, you have a rifle that will be up to the task.

@ post 45

I shoot a lot of 55gr because that is what is available around here and my 1/7 with a RDS will put them all in a 1g paint can at 200 all day long. When I can get my hands on it, I buy the 68gr or 75gr pills because it is a bit more accurate with them and I like them to buck the Wyoming wind. I also keep 75gr Hornady TAP on hand as HD ammo (twist for that purpose really doesn't matter though since any of them will be able to hit a person at hallway distance).

Another thing to keep in mind regarding cost is that some lower tier ARs won't feed WOLF. My brother's Bushmaster and many other BMs and DPMS guns I have seen at the range won't shoot it. The stores around here even warn everyone who is buying it that it probably will not feed in an AR. That isn't a problem with my BCM though. I have put ~300rds of WOLF of all types though it (over the course of about 2-3 weeks) and it never paused (all that with a H buffer and no cleaning). This allows me to buy cheap practice ammo while my brother has to spend another 1-2 dollars a box to get ammo that he can shoot. I know that I don't have the round count to make my opinion as qualified as some others but in 2 months I put ~1000rds down the pipe with no problems so my sample of one works great.

You have a point, some guns are finicky with certain ammo, Bushmaster at one point authorized the use of Wolf ammo on their website (search the support pages under "Wolf ammo" and read about it) and since removed their statement (because of changes made by Wolf that caused underpowered rounds to not cycle the bcg in semi auto). I have a Bushy and use 55gr Wolf FMJ polymer coated bullets, which work fine. I also have a SGW M16 which feeds Wolf , and I never had a problem to date (has a Bravo Co. bcg and a Enidine Hydraulic Buffer (had an H2, changed and now rate of fire is better:), KNS pins (non rotating trigger & sear pins) ). But it doesnt like Barnaul zinc plated 55 or 62 gr soft points AT ALL, will not cycle thru full auto.

But I have to disagree w/all the AR snobs that say Colt, FN or whoever make the only ARs that are dependable and worth buying. I read something on M4Carbine website about Bushy bbls are 4150, but not the good kind of 4150?? I agree with the experts when advising to upgrading the extractor/springs and using reputable mags (the buffer weight is not always an issue with semi auto, especially if you use a full auto bcg in a semi auto rifle).
The cold hammer forged bbls are the latest fad for ARs (it seems), does that mean all others bbls now are shit?? Everybody jumped on the gas piston wagon when that came out, until problems surfaced. I have quite a few1980s-90's pre ban AR15s (Essential Arms, DPMS, Oly, Eagle Arms that have 16 inch bbls (some not even chromed lined)) which have THOUSANDS of rounds thru em, have been owned and used by 5 other people. After I changed springs and bolts, these guns ran well enough for me to hit targets at 100 yds. (not 1, 2 or 3 MOA thought), but I can hit the (trunk) silhouette at 100yds. Just because someone doesnt consider an AR a "Tier 1" doesnt mean its junk or no good.
 
I feel that all of the tier talk is somewhat counterproductive because it's based not on a defined set of criteria/standards but on opinion. I prefer to base my AR purchase decisions on standards so I opt for mil-spec components and usually purchase from Bravo Company. It eliminates a lot of crap from the often confusing decision making process. :thumbup: :)
 
I feel that all of the tier talk is somewhat counterproductive because it's based not on a defined set of criteria/standards but on opinion. I prefer to base my AR purchase decisions on standards so I opt for mil-spec components and usually purchase from Bravo Company. It eliminates a lot of crap from the often confusing decision making process. :thumbup: :)

It actually is based on a set criterion. The chart that was linked on the first page has the different specs explained and shows which makers use what specs.

That said, I am with you on buying BCM and avoiding all the problems.
 
It actually is based on a set criterion. The chart that was linked on the first page has the different specs explained and shows which makers use what specs.

Yup, that's a great chart but it is still pretty easy to find people who disagree on which manufacturers belong in which tier. If a new/potential AR owner stumbles onto the wrong tier list, they can easily be misled into making a poor decision based on one person's view.

That said, I am with you on buying BCM and avoiding all the problems.

:thumbup:
 
Back
Top