.577NE
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Arc vs wave vs surge vs charge
- Thread starter ShaiHulud
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BJE
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Curious, how are the tool designs outdated and leathermans more efficient?
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For me it’s a close call between the Wave and the Arc for all around tasks. I voted for the Arc. I like the Wave for its handiness and tool setup but the scissors are not as good as the Arc. But I don’t use them enough to really make a difference and same for the main blade but having a Magnacut blade for backup is nice so that kinda edges out the Wave.
I don’t have the Charge or Surge so I can’t say anything about them. I have a Signal that I really like for camping and outdoor stuff that works well in that capacity.
For my needs and satisfaction they all do very well. When I consider what was available back in the 1970s and what we have available now it’s amazing. Leatherman brought multi tools to a whole different level and the Wave is the most popular multi tool in history.
I don’t have the Charge or Surge so I can’t say anything about them. I have a Signal that I really like for camping and outdoor stuff that works well in that capacity.
For my needs and satisfaction they all do very well. When I consider what was available back in the 1970s and what we have available now it’s amazing. Leatherman brought multi tools to a whole different level and the Wave is the most popular multi tool in history.
TouhouFan
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I was VERY skeptical on the Arc due to all of the negative reviews and initial impressions I saw. Also, not to mention all of the quality control issues with Leatherman. Although, from observing for a long period of time… I think it’s a quality control issue with all models not just the Arc.
I owned the Rebar, Wave, Surge, Arc, Skeletool, and the Juice. The Arc has survived the pack and is my only Leatherman currently.
The reason being: it’s very easy to deploy the pliers one handed. Also, you have access to all tools fairly easily one handed, minus the saw and the scissors which I find hard to access as a right handed person.
Another big reason for me personally, the scissors. The Surge has the best scissors of any Leatherman. The P2/P4 and Arc are second place. I think that the scissors you have on the Wave and Charge frankly, suck really bad.
Granted there are few tasks that scissors can do that a knife can’t, when scissors are optimal for a task you really find yourself wanting for a good pair.
I think the thumbstud on the magnacut blade is a great thing. I haven’t really had a chance to sharpen it, so I can’t speak on if it makes it annoying to do (although it’s removable). But it’s a good thumbstud. Also, compared to any other Leatherman blade with the hole opening, it’s much more comfortable. Oftentimes the Leatherman knife opening hole like on the Wave and Surge are completely squared and sharp. I don’t have weak thumbs, but I had have skin come off from a Surge at times. The Arc does have that problem for the Saw and File however.
It’s not all good though. I do find it odd that they didn’t bother to machine in a ruler like on the Wave and Surge. Also, the choice of a Saw over a Serrated Blade is interesting. I would have liked to replace a tool for a Serrated Blade as it’s pretty useful on the Surge. I don’t really use the can opener, or the eyeglass screwdriver even though I wear glasses. I don’t think I’ll ever use the wood saw either, although I suppose you never know. Everything else on the tool I find use for though, which is a fairly good ratio considering multitools nowadays.
As far as the pliers go. I don’t really cut much hard wire on a day to day basis. The worst it gets is chicken wire for my hens, but it’s fairly thin stuff. If I do cut thick wire I will just be mindful of where to place the wire on the cutters based off videos I’ve seen. I mostly use the pliers are a finger tip substitute. Or a finger tip force multiplier. I do have to grab onto a bolt now and again and it’s done fine for that, but again I’m not doing anything hardcore.
The blade seems good. I’ve heard it may not be treated to a high hrc but a multitool blade is a beater so that kind of makes sense. I like the blade shape as it’s a drop point/wharncliffe style. Kind of reminds me of a santoku blade or the insingo blade. I’m not blown away by magnacut being on a knife anymore as I’ve carried magnacut chris reeve knives for years now. Although it is a great blade for a multitool, probably the best blade currently on the market.
I owned the Rebar, Wave, Surge, Arc, Skeletool, and the Juice. The Arc has survived the pack and is my only Leatherman currently.
The reason being: it’s very easy to deploy the pliers one handed. Also, you have access to all tools fairly easily one handed, minus the saw and the scissors which I find hard to access as a right handed person.
Another big reason for me personally, the scissors. The Surge has the best scissors of any Leatherman. The P2/P4 and Arc are second place. I think that the scissors you have on the Wave and Charge frankly, suck really bad.
Granted there are few tasks that scissors can do that a knife can’t, when scissors are optimal for a task you really find yourself wanting for a good pair.
I think the thumbstud on the magnacut blade is a great thing. I haven’t really had a chance to sharpen it, so I can’t speak on if it makes it annoying to do (although it’s removable). But it’s a good thumbstud. Also, compared to any other Leatherman blade with the hole opening, it’s much more comfortable. Oftentimes the Leatherman knife opening hole like on the Wave and Surge are completely squared and sharp. I don’t have weak thumbs, but I had have skin come off from a Surge at times. The Arc does have that problem for the Saw and File however.
It’s not all good though. I do find it odd that they didn’t bother to machine in a ruler like on the Wave and Surge. Also, the choice of a Saw over a Serrated Blade is interesting. I would have liked to replace a tool for a Serrated Blade as it’s pretty useful on the Surge. I don’t really use the can opener, or the eyeglass screwdriver even though I wear glasses. I don’t think I’ll ever use the wood saw either, although I suppose you never know. Everything else on the tool I find use for though, which is a fairly good ratio considering multitools nowadays.
As far as the pliers go. I don’t really cut much hard wire on a day to day basis. The worst it gets is chicken wire for my hens, but it’s fairly thin stuff. If I do cut thick wire I will just be mindful of where to place the wire on the cutters based off videos I’ve seen. I mostly use the pliers are a finger tip substitute. Or a finger tip force multiplier. I do have to grab onto a bolt now and again and it’s done fine for that, but again I’m not doing anything hardcore.
The blade seems good. I’ve heard it may not be treated to a high hrc but a multitool blade is a beater so that kind of makes sense. I like the blade shape as it’s a drop point/wharncliffe style. Kind of reminds me of a santoku blade or the insingo blade. I’m not blown away by magnacut being on a knife anymore as I’ve carried magnacut chris reeve knives for years now. Although it is a great blade for a multitool, probably the best blade currently on the market.
But they didn't have to coat a super corrosive resistant metal
TouhouFan
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I've heard and had my own Leatherman rust on parts and etc. But I've never really heard of anyone really complaining about it. Seems like multi-tools are more of a tool for most people than jewelry, which is what pocket knives tend to fall towards nowadays.But they didn't have to coat a super corrosive resistant metal
TouhouFan
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I don't think having a corrosion resistant blade matters that much if the entire tool and other tools are not corrosion resistant.But they didn't have to coat a super corrosive resistant metal
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I've got mixed feelings about the Arc. I bought one on a recent trip abroad mainly because it cost more or less the same as a Rebar would have cost in my country, since we've got super high taxes.
I used it as a stand alone EDC tool for a while (I had to go to some places where knives might not be welcome and figured a multitool would be a safer bet), and in that role it works really well. However, my multitools usually ride in my backpack and I've got a dedicated knife (or knives) in my pocket all the time, so the cutting blade on my multitools is probably the feature I use the least.
I prefer it to my Charge Tti because of the awl and the outside accesible tools. But that's a very marginal advantage and it doesn't justify the price difference. If I wasn't into collecting multitools, I'd be happy with most of my older Leatherman or Victorinox models.
I like the file over the tiny one on the Free P4, but I'm not too fond of the bit drivers. I'd rather have a couple of flathead and Phillips screwdrivers in my multitool, and a separate ratchet or wrench with regular bits (like the ones that come with Victorinox Swiss Tools).
I got a Swiss Tool Spirit MX (I think that's the model name, the one with the one hand opening blade and pocket clip) a couple of weeks after buying the Arc and I've been using it a lot more than the more expensive Leatherman. It just fits my needs better, although I'm still happy to have purchased the Arc, I don't think that it's enough of an improvement over other full size Leatherman or Victorinox models to justify the cost. Unless it has some tool or design feature you just can't live without.
I used it as a stand alone EDC tool for a while (I had to go to some places where knives might not be welcome and figured a multitool would be a safer bet), and in that role it works really well. However, my multitools usually ride in my backpack and I've got a dedicated knife (or knives) in my pocket all the time, so the cutting blade on my multitools is probably the feature I use the least.
I prefer it to my Charge Tti because of the awl and the outside accesible tools. But that's a very marginal advantage and it doesn't justify the price difference. If I wasn't into collecting multitools, I'd be happy with most of my older Leatherman or Victorinox models.
I like the file over the tiny one on the Free P4, but I'm not too fond of the bit drivers. I'd rather have a couple of flathead and Phillips screwdrivers in my multitool, and a separate ratchet or wrench with regular bits (like the ones that come with Victorinox Swiss Tools).
I got a Swiss Tool Spirit MX (I think that's the model name, the one with the one hand opening blade and pocket clip) a couple of weeks after buying the Arc and I've been using it a lot more than the more expensive Leatherman. It just fits my needs better, although I'm still happy to have purchased the Arc, I don't think that it's enough of an improvement over other full size Leatherman or Victorinox models to justify the cost. Unless it has some tool or design feature you just can't live without.
TouhouFan
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Wow those are some crazy taxes. I got my arc for about $115 on the secondary market so cost isn’t really a factor for me. I agree with it being a safer bet, being more publicly accepted being a multitool and not a pocket knife.
Agree on the bit driver, I prefer the full 3D bits on the Rebar and the Swiss Tool.
Eventually if Victorinox improves the steel and continues on the path as their MX series with one handed opening, it will be an overall better pick than Leatherman. I like the quality control of Victorinox more than Leatherman, but the one handed access to tools and pliers is important for me.
I have the Swisstool X, which is more equivalent to the Free P4 than the MX.
The Tool X has:
- A dedicated big flat head screwdriver with nothing extra
- A big flat head screwdriver with wire stripper
- A medium flat head screwdriver combo with bottle opener with wire stripper (the standard thing on SAK)
So here we have 3 things overlapping works.
- A small dedicated flat head screwdriver
- A small flat head screwdriver with the can opener
Ok, I give it to them, the dedicated one has longer reach.
The Free P4 has:
- 4 one hand opening tools
- Different sizes of flat head on different tools, nothing is 1 dedicated tool, everything are combo.
- The Phillips screwdriver is on the can opener instead of stand alone
- A reamer that you can actually use as an awl! (which is bizarre since many SAK have awl)
- This is less important overall, but the Free P4, like many Leatherman tools, are modular as you can easily open the tool with hex screwdriver to clean or swap tools.
BJE
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I have the spirit x, so I can’t comment on the full size, I also don’t own any of the free series by leatherman, though I have examined them in person at some knife shops.
I don’t need or use modularity, I’m not one to customize the toolset and add more expense, just isn’t my thing so I don’t benefit from that feature.
Both Vic and leatherman include tools I don’t use often, such as eyeglass screwdriver, and chisel. The awl on my spirit is better by far than the one on any of my other leatherman tools so I don’t understand that point. Maybe the free series has a different style?
What I mostly enjoy about the victorinox over the leatherman is the quality, the plier heads don’t loosen up to and become sloppy, the tools don’t rust as easily and have a stronger feel, and the handle shape when open is much more ergonomic than the straight handles of leatherman tools, when jaws are wide open the handles are closer together so you can generate a stronger grip instead of your hands trying to slide towards the pivot.
They both make good products, I just consider Vic to be superior for me for the reasons stated above, I don’t need the outside one hand opening tools and wouldn’t trade that feature for the added comfort and leverage provided by the curved Vic handles.
You asked which tools are more outdated/efficient, I answered just that. The build quality and conform/feel are different subjects and more on personal preference. Such as one hand opening tools and quick deployment are my preference.
I specially wrote that the modularity the least important, it is still something that gives you option without compromising anything else.
BJE
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I suppose I don’t see how your points showed Vic tools being outdated when it seems you just prefer the layout of the leatherman tool as I do vics, nothing wrong with having a preference, that’s why they make more than one multitool.
To me the Swisstool feels more refined, but I like both brands.
To me the Swisstool feels more refined, but I like both brands.
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The Wave for me, I hear lots of people slamming its scissors... I actually quite like them. I only really use the scissors on any multi tool for trimming my nails or other tasks too delicate for the blade, so for me the smaller version is better.
That said, 99.5% of the time I'm just packing a SAK Fieldmaster, with a small set of slip joint pliers and a daimond file. A combination that I find superior in general to a Leatherman type tool, as well as more pocketable.
That said, 99.5% of the time I'm just packing a SAK Fieldmaster, with a small set of slip joint pliers and a daimond file. A combination that I find superior in general to a Leatherman type tool, as well as more pocketable.
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I used the heck out of my Arc the last few weeks working on my old house and it's a keeper.
The one-handed ability is priceless.
The one-handed ability is priceless.
I’m looking at these right now and have it narrowed down to the Surge and the Arc. My take after handling both at Cabela’s today:
Surge Pros: T-adapter, better pliers, sturdier construction/no flex, better scissors, nicer awl
Arc Pros: better blade, all outside tools, lighter/easier carry, much easier to deploy, impact surface
Ultimately I have to decide whether I want a more capable tool that will probably end up living in my backpack to be called on at need, or a nearly-as-capable, smoother tool that I can still slip in my pocket if I want.
Surge Pros: T-adapter, better pliers, sturdier construction/no flex, better scissors, nicer awl
Arc Pros: better blade, all outside tools, lighter/easier carry, much easier to deploy, impact surface
Ultimately I have to decide whether I want a more capable tool that will probably end up living in my backpack to be called on at need, or a nearly-as-capable, smoother tool that I can still slip in my pocket if I want.
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My reason for going with the Arc over the Surge is compactness. I prefer a multi tool that is small enough for pocket carry and still has enough size to be useful. The way I look at it is is if I need a bigger tool I will go to the tool box for a bigger set of pliers or screw driver. But when I am out and about I just need something that will work in a pinch that’s easy to carry and save that trip to the tool box.
Do you find that it flexes excessively if applying torsion to the handles (i.e., holding something with the jaws at 90° and bending by twisting the handles)? I noticed that the surge was rock solid in this regard, but the arc flexed significantly.
I have not noticed any flex, but I admit that I do not crank on them like my Channel-locks.