Arch Lock vs Axis Lock? Favourite type of lock?

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Gideons

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Hey guys, I never really thought extensively about SOG Arch Lock before, but I am wondering what is the difference between it and the benchmade axis lock? Is it as strong as the axis lock? Also, what is your favourite locking type?

- Gideon


Locking the thread because it got off-topic from Cold Steel fan boys.
 
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Knifebro pretty much nailed it. As for me, I'm really loving the Compression lock from Spyderco and frame locks. I've been going between a PM2 and the Spartan Blades Akribis for a while now. Both really blow my skirt up.
 
Should be about the same.

All the strongest locks use a short connector between blade and frame. Triad, Arch, Axis, Compression, Bolt Action, Ball Bearing, button lock. The difference between them in strength don't come down to the basic design but the application and materials. You can make a weak or strong version of any of them.


In contrast, traditional back locks, liner locks and frame locks all rely on fairly long arms that are able to deform or break more easily than the short bars or balls used in the above list. I like these locks just as much because they are generally more convenient to use than the other list (with the exception of the button lock).
 
After replacing the lock spring on my SOG numerous times, I would have to say it is inferior to the Axis lock (in my experience).
 
I would prefer the Axis lock merely because I have no experience with SOG. My favorite lock is the Tri-Ad lock because it's the strongest and in my experience no less convenient than a standard lockback. Spyderco's compression lock is a very close second.
 
Kwon Kwang said:
I would prefer the Axis lock merely because I have no experience with SOG. My favorite lock is the Tri-Ad lock because it's the strongest and in my experience no less convenient than a standard lockback. Spyderco's compression lock is a very close second.
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How is the Tri-ad lock stronger? How was that determined?
 
RX-79G said:
How is the Tri-ad lock stronger? How was that determined?
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Have you ever seen one fail? The blade will break first in all cases. Cold Steel has proven it to be the strongest lock with extensive testing, and user tests yield the same results.
 
kniferbro said:
Stop pin. A long the lines of what you just explained!
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They all have "stop pins". The Axis lock is just another kind of stop pin. That's why I asked why the Tri-Ad would be considered stronger than anything else.

Is it the Lynn Thompson Factor?
 
Kwon Kwang said:
Have you ever seen one fail? The blade will break first in all cases. Cold Steel has proven it to be the strongest lock with extensive testing, and user tests yield the same results.
Click to expand...

They have proven that an example of that lock in a particular knife was stronger than different lock in a completely different knife. Especially when tiny differences in leverage by the testing machine can be more decisive than any other part of a test.

Build two knives that are identical except for the lock and then there's a comparison.
 
RX-79G said:
They all have "stop pins". The Axis lock is just another kind of stop pin. That's why I asked why the Tri-Ad would be considered stronger than anything else.

Is it the Lynn Thompson Factor?
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Yes axis lock knives do use a stop pin. I thought the question was directed at "why is the triad stronger than a back lock" and the answer to that is the triad lock uses a stop pin while the traditional back lock does not. The pin transferring the force into the frame. Like you said.
 
I would say in my opinion, the benchmade Axis lock is just as strong as the tri-ad lock, not to mention axis lock is easier to operate. TBH, cold steel does a lot of BS testing, and there overall advertising/attitude made me not like the company anymore. They are strong (CS), but they are behind at pretty much every other aspect. Also, the whole idea of "absolutely strongest" in my opinion is 100% subjective look at test by certain youtubers (that I don't agree with most torture tests) have CS ranking below some benchmade knives, ZT etc. (example) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q3Z9koNohHDIUogSVRaIGl-o3mebrbjwSDNcR0h5LlU/edit#gid=0 so... lets try to not get stuck in absolutes.
 
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RX-79G said:
They have proven that an example of that lock in a particular knife was stronger than different lock in a completely different knife. Especially when tiny differences in leverage by the testing machine can be more decisive than any other part of a test.

Build two knives that are identical except for the lock and then there's a comparison.
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Incorrect.

If one man can lift a max of 300lbs and another 400lbs, the one who can lift 400 is stronger, regardless of whether they weigh 50 lbs different than each other, are 25 years apart, or one's a basketball player and the other a jockey.

The "most" of any one thing means exactly that: "THE MOST". It does not get qualified with "adjusted for X factors"

If the only strength test of two knives shows one lock fails at 150 lbs weight hanging from the blade, while another lock fails at 100 lbs, the one that failed at 150 lbs is stronger, regardless of what the knives are (numbers adjusted for length of blade and handle affecting "torque", of course).

Your argument is like saying "American muscle is better at the dragstrip because it's REAL horsepower, even if the 1.5 litre turbo Honda runs the same E.T (or is slightly faster)".
 
robgmn said:
Incorrect.

If one man can lift a max of 300lbs and another 400lbs, the one who can lift 400 is stronger, regardless of whether they weigh 50 lbs different than each other, are 25 years apart, or one's a basketball player and the other a jockey.

The "most" of any one thing means exactly that: "THE MOST". It does not get qualified with "adjusted for X factors"

If the only strength test of two knives shows one lock fails at 150 lbs weight hanging from the blade, while another lock fails at 100 lbs, the one that failed at 150 lbs is stronger, regardless of what the knives are (numbers adjusted for length of blade and handle affecting "torque", of course).

Your argument is like saying "American muscle is better at the dragstrip because it's REAL horsepower, even if the 1.5 litre turbo Honda runs the same E.T (or is slightly faster)".
Click to expand...

I have never seen a test where CS did a test of over few hundred pounds. On the other hand, Benchmade has show tests of knives holding over 1200 pounds thus they only do tests they know there knives will pass.
 
robgmn said:
Incorrect.

If one man can lift a max of 300lbs and another 400lbs, the one who can lift 400 is stronger, regardless of whether they weigh 50 lbs different than each other, are 25 years apart, or one's a basketball player and the other a jockey.

The "most" of any one thing means exactly that: "THE MOST". It does not get qualified with "adjusted for X factors"

If the only strength test of two knives shows one lock fails at 150 lbs weight hanging from the blade, while another lock fails at 100 lbs, the one that failed at 150 lbs is stronger, regardless of what the knives are (numbers adjusted for length of blade and handle affecting "torque", of course).

Your argument is like saying "American muscle is better at the dragstrip because it's REAL horsepower, even if the 1.5 litre turbo Honda runs the same E.T (or is slightly faster)".
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Nope. It ends up being a test of the whole knife and its construction and adaptability to a very unscientific test. Handle flex alone can buy more weight because it reduces leverage.

If you want to know which of two knives is stronger, by all means point to a test. But don't presume that a Honda engine produces more power because the car it was installed in won a race. Clearly, the whole car was involved.

We are talking about the lock themselves, not the whole knife, right?
 
RX-79G said:
They have proven that an example of that lock in a particular knife was stronger than different lock in a completely different knife. Especially when tiny differences in leverage by the testing machine can be more decisive than any other part of a test.

Build two knives that are identical except for the lock and then there's a comparison.
Click to expand...

The fact remains that knives featuring the Tri-Ad lock invariably offer the user a much stronger lockup than any competitors in the same price range.
 
Kwon Kwang said:
The fact remains that knives featuring the Tri-Ad lock invariably offer the user a much stronger lockup than any competitors in the same price range.
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No doubt. And if Benchmade or Spyderco decided they wanted to market that way, they would create knives with their locks that would excel at this type of test.


But the essential design differences between the locks aren't the issue. And no one can point to an engineering reason a ball bearing does a poor job stopping the blade than a different shaped piece of steel.
 
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