Are assited opeing blades legal in all states

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ohenkowski

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Oct 4, 2010
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Eblade store. com claims that Assisted opening knives were designed to address the legal concerns of owning an automatic knife. They are legal in all 52 states. is this true:confused:
 
ohenkowski said:
Eblade store. com claims that Assisted opening knives were designed to address the legal concerns of owning an automatic knife. They are legal in all 52 states. is this true:confused:
Click to expand...

52 states? Have we added two more since Hawaii?
 
That is a lofty claim, and I highly doubt it. Here's the problem with making such a claim though:

There is federal law and then there is the laws of each state, and then there is the laws of each county within that state, and sometimes the cities too. As you go down the ladder, the law can get tighter and tighter.

Now that said, I do not know of any state that has explicit, non-ambiguous language making assisted openers (AOs) specifically illegal where a non-spring-loaded blade of the same length is otherwise explicitly legal. But someone may be able to quote a law to this effect that I am not aware of.

I have heard of police officer interpretation being rather unreliable on this matter though. In Texas a person was arrested for a Kershaw AO on the grounds that it was a switchblade. The court, in a travesty of justice, agreed with the officer's non-expert opinion and ruled it a switchblade. Texas subsequently rewrote it's switchblade law to undo this problem and make AOs unambiguously legal (at least at the state level). In another thread on this forum recently, a Connecticut officer was mentioned as having confiscated (without arrest or citation) an AO as a switchblade, but later reprimanded by his supervisor for doing so, as it was not consistent with the law.

So as with any matter about knife legality, tread carefully.
 
ohenkowski said:
Eblade store. com claims that Assisted opening knives were designed to address the legal concerns of owning an automatic knife. They are legal in all 52 states. is this true:confused:
Click to expand...

52 states....funny.
 
They are explicitly illegal in NY:

§ 265.00 Definitions.
As used in this article and in article four hundred, the following
terms shall mean and include:
...
4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens
automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other
device in the handle of the knife.
5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released
from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the appli-
cation of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by
means of a button, spring, lever or other device.
5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which has a blade which
can be projected from the handle by hand pressure applied to a button,
lever, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.
5-b. "Metal knuckle knife" means a weapon that, when closed, cannot
function as a set of metal knuckles, nor as a knife and when open, can
function as both a set of metal knuckles as well as a knife.
6. "Dispose of" means to dispose of, give, give away, lease-loan, keep
for sale, offer, offer for sale, sell, transfer and otherwise dispose
of.
...
13. "Cane Sword" means a cane or swagger stick having concealed within
it a blade that may be used as a sword or stilletto.
...
15-b. "Kung Fu star" means a disc-like object with sharpened points on
the circumference thereof and is designed for use primarily as a weapon
to be thrown.
...

§ 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth
degree when:
(1) He possesses any ... gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum
ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, ... shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
Note: using circular reasoning, subsequent law PL 265.15(4) dictates that simple possession constitutes presumptive evidence that the possessor intends to use the instrument unlawfully against another.
...
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen
of the United States; or
...
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

§ 265.05 Unlawful possession of weapons by persons under sixteen.
It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of sixteen to
possess ... any dangerous knife ... .
A person who violates the provisions of this section shall be adjudged
a juvenile delinquent.

* § 265.10 Manufacture, transport, disposition and defacement of weapons
and dangerous instruments and appliances.
1. ... Any person who manufactures
or causes to be manufactured any switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum
ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, ... Kung Fu star, ... is
guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
2. ... Any person who transports or
ships as merchandise any ... switch-blade knife, gravity knife, pilum
ballistic knife, ... Kung Fu star, ... is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
...
4. Any person who disposes of any of the weapons, instruments or
appliances specified in subdivision one of section 265.01, except a
firearm, is guilty of a class A misdemeanor, and he is guilty of a class
D felony if he has previously been convicted of any crime.
5. Any person who disposes of any of the weapons, instruments, appli-
ances or substances specified in section 265.05 to any other person
under the age of sixteen years is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.

§ 265.15 Presumptions of possession, unlawful intent and defacement.
...
2. The presence in any stolen vehicle of any weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance specified in sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03,
265.04 and 265.05 is presumptive evidence of its possession by all
persons occupying such vehicle at the time such weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance is found.
3. The presence in an automobile, other than a stolen one or a
public omnibus, of any ... gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum
ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, ... is
presumptive evidence of its possession by all persons occupying such automobile
at the time such weapon, instrument or appliance is found, except under
the following circumstances: (a) if such weapon, instrument or appliance
is found upon the person of one of the occupants therein; (b) if such
weapon, instrument or appliance is found in an automobile which is being
operated for hire by a duly licensed driver in the due, lawful and prop-
er pursuit of his or her trade, then such presumption shall not apply to
the driver; ...
4. ... The possession by any person of any dagger,
dirk, stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appli-
ance or substance designed, made or adapted for use primarily as a weap-
on, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against
another.
Click to expand...
 
AOs are normally legal in all states that allow normal side openers.

The problem with Bryan J's reasoning is the word "handle" in the laws he references. AO knives require you press on the "blade" and not anywhere on the "handle". AOs are not ballistic knives as Vege-Taco has correctly pointed out.
 
Hey, relax, this is just a friendly discussion from my end. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to concede, but I don't think I am.

New York Penal Section 265.01 explicitly defines what is meant by "pilum ballistic knife" and it has nothing to do with projectile blades. Your reference to wikipedia's definition of a "ballistic knife" is completely irrelevant unless you believe that wikipedia definitions somehow supercede NY law.
 
Chief said:
AOs are normally legal in all states that allow normal side openers.

The problem with Bryan J's reasoning is the word "handle" in the laws he references. AO knives require you press on the "blade" and not anywhere on the "handle". AOs are not ballistic knives as Vege-Taco has correctly pointed out.
Click to expand...

I implore you to reread the NY code:

5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which has a blade which
can be projected from the handle by hand pressure applied to a button,
lever, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.

If you're pressing on the blade to open the knife, are you not applying pressure to a "device in the handle of the knife"?

So is it your opinion that AO knives are legal despite the fact that gravity knives are not?

A NY policeman once told me that if he takes your Spyderco Delica from you and the blade is loose enough such that he can swing it out by flicking his wrist, then the knife is in violation (it's a "gravity knife").
 
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New York City, IIRC, is trying to "reinterpret" AOs as switchblades, even though the language of NY state law hasn't changed.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...rights-battle-may-be-over-knives?render=print
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=113&Itemid=1
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114&Itemid=1#body2
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheManhattanDA

Check out the video where a clerk shows undercover agents how to open a regular thumb stud or circle opener with a flick of the wrist. That must make them "gravity knives," right? Likewise, assisted openers are being redefined as switchblades.

Many states have tried to classify AOs as switchblades in the past but lobbying by knife rights groups persuaded legislators that there was a functional difference between an assisted opener, with a spring bias towards staying shut when closed, and a switchblade, where the actuating mechanism was a switch or button on the handle instead of the blade, and there was no bias to keeping the blade closed.

The thing is, it's ludicrous to outlaw switchblades. There is no real functional difference between an AO and a switchblade - they are both convenient cutting tools that can be opened with one hand. If the mechanism of one makes it inherently evil, then the mechanism of the other must also make it evil since the function and intent of the different mechanisms are the same.

Switchblades are illegal because in the fifties they came to be associated with the "wrong" kind of people - good guys carried one type of tool, juvenile delinquents carried another. In the eighties balisongs were stereotyped as weapons of "bad" people. Now AOs and folding tactical knives are being subjected to the same prejudice.
 
squinty said:
New York City, IIRC, is trying to "reinterpret" AOs as switchblades, even though the language of NY state law hasn't changed.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...rights-battle-may-be-over-knives?render=print
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=113&Itemid=1
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114&Itemid=1#body2
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheManhattanDA

Check out the video where a clerk shows undercover agents how to open a regular thumb stud or circle opener with a flick of the wrist. That must make them "gravity knives," right? Likewise, assisted openers are being redefined as switchblades.

Many states have tried to classify AOs as switchblades in the past but lobbying by knife rights groups persuaded legislators that there was a functional difference between an assisted opener, with a spring bias towards staying shut when closed, and a switchblade, where the actuating mechanism was a switch or button on the handle instead of the blade, and there was no bias to keeping the blade closed.

The thing is, it's ludicrous to outlaw switchblades. There is no real functional difference between an AO and a switchblade - they are both convenient cutting tools that can be opened with one hand. If the mechanism of one makes it inherently evil, then the mechanism of the other must also make it evil since the function and intent of the different mechanisms are the same.

Switchblades are illegal because in the fifties they came to be associated with the "wrong" kind of people - good guys carried one type of tool, juvenile delinquents carried another. In the eighties balisongs were stereotyped as weapons of "bad" people. Now AOs and folding tactical knives are being subjected to the same prejudice.
Click to expand...

That video is a great example of pure human idiocy. She should have asked the clerk if they sold scissors. I can flick open a pair of scissors faster than a switchblade and--horror of horrors--I've got not one but two blades to kill her with!
 
Assisted opening and Pilum ballistic knife are two different things. Byran, you gave a good effort but are mis reading the law. The NYPD legal division feels AOs are illegal because they feel they are a dangerous knife based on the fact they are designed to open quickly. The NYC DA feels they are switchblades. I feel they are both wrong of course. There was a trial in Queens NYC a few months ago, where the Queens DA ( part of NYC) charged the defendant with a switchblade that was in fact an AO. The jury found it not to be a switchblade since you pushed on a lever on the balde and not in the handle. It is true that a swicthbalde is held closed by a switch which when pressed the blade opens automatically, where as a AO has a bias toward being closed until you over come the resistance. If my freedom was based on it I would rather prove to the jury that the little "thingy" you press is on the blade and not the handle....
 
Bryan J said:
5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand pressure applied to a button,
lever, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.
Click to expand...

Using your understanding of the sentence above, any folding knife would be illegal in NY. Using the English definition of a Pilum Ballistic Knife the blade must leave the handle and go flying across the room to be illegal in NY.
 
Here in Missouri the current law does not reflect the paragraph that was added last October to the Switchblade Act of 1958 which excludes one-hand openers and assisted knives from the definition of switchblades. At this time it seems to be a toss-up as to whether you would be prosecuted for having an assisted knife. I have initiated a dialogue with a state representative who is a strong 2nd Amendment and CCW supporter about clarifying Missouri's knife laws. First, I would like the new paragraph of the Switchblade Act added to the Missouri law clearly legalizing assisted knives. Second, I would like Missouri to end preemption of the State law by county and local laws (Missouri allows up to 4" on folding knives but I have discovered local laws only allowing 2 1/2"). I have also indicated to the rep. that it makes no sense that carrying a firearm is legal while a knife is not. I indicated to him that automatic knives should be legalized as a tool and, even if carry is not allowed, possession at home and collecting should be.
 
BJ you need to concede. AOs are not "ballistic" knives. Nevertheless the are probably illegal in a number of jurisdictions as are a variety of plain folders.
 
dttomcat said:
BJ you need to concede. AOs are not "ballistic" knives. Nevertheless the are probably illegal in a number of jurisdictions as are a variety of plain folders.
Click to expand...

It may very well be the case that I am wrong, but nobody in this thread as of yet has made that case.

You and others are missing the important point here--that the penal code defines the terms it uses in its own laws. I agree with you that an AO is not a ballistic knife. I agree it isn't a switchblade. When we hear the term "ballistic knife", I'm sure we both are envisioning the very same device (a knife that shoots a blade across the room). But none of this has any effect on the NY state law's definition of a "pilum ballistic knife". Legislators don't know anything about knives or guns. It doesn't matter what the colloquial usage is; it doesn't matter what's written on Wikipedia; all that matters is what is written into the law books.

"Pilum ballistic knife" is just a phrase used to categorize and describe in the penal code. You're being sidetracked by what it means to you and ignoring how NY law is defining it.

To counter what I have said, you need to show how my interpretation of the definition in the statute is incorrect based on what is actually written. Simply pointing out that the NY law defines the phrase "ballistic knife" differently than you or I would define it isn't sufficient.
 
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