Are assited opeing blades legal in all states

Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand pressure applied to a button,
lever, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.


An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to a button.
An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to a lever.
An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to a spring.
An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to any other device in the handle of the knife.


OK, since none of the parameters that NY law defines as being a ballistic knife fit, how exactly can you say the NY law defines an assisted opening knife as a ballistic knife?
 
Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand pressure applied to a button,
lever, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.


An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to a button.
An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to a lever.
An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to a spring.
An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to any other device in the handle of the knife.


OK, since none of the parameters that NY law defines as being a ballistic knife fit, how exactly can you say the NY law defines an assisted opening knife as a ballistic knife?


Here in lies the problem. BryanJ is looking at the same definition that the NYC DA is and you and I for that matter, but coming up with a totally different conclusion.

Obviously by the definition given a "ballistic knife" does not include an assisted opener.

Maybe the DA is just using "Authority Having Jurisdiction" rights or maybe he knows or is related to someone who was assaulted with a knife. The whole thing reminds me of the Burgermeister's toy ban in that old kid's Christmas special.

I'm suprised that NYC is putting up with it.
 
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Others are of my same opinion:


http://aoknives.com/new-york-assisted-knife-laws-and-legality
In the State of New York, you can own, possess, and carry an assisted-opening knife of any length, as long as you are 16 and not a convicted felon.



New York Case Law:

- Knife... was not a "gravity knife"... even though blade of
knife could be released from its sheath by flick of the
wrist; in order to lock blade of knife in open position,
two additional steps were required... (1989).

- Butterfly or "Balisong" knife, a folding knife with a split
handle, did not have blade released by force of gravity or
application of centrifugal force, and did not constitute a
"gravity knife"... (1987).
 
Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand pressure applied to a button,
lever, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.


An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to a button.
An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to a lever.
An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to a spring.
An assisted opening knife does not open by applying pressure to any other device in the handle of the knife.


OK, since none of the parameters that NY law defines as being a ballistic knife fit, how exactly can you say the NY law defines an assisted opening knife as a ballistic knife?

The important thing is not what you or I "say" about the law as written, but how it may be construed by the courts. It is not inconceivable that the statute could be construed to include AO knives. An AO knife is in fact a knife that opens by applying pressure to a device in the handle--that device is the blade itself.

I also recall reading on a knife rights website that some lawyers in NY construe the "gravity knife" definition as applying to any knife with a locking blade since most any knife can be flipped open. This would be consistent with what the police officer told me.
 
The NY law says "projected" as in projectile... They don't mean "opened" as in the previous paragraph regarding switchblades. They mean a ballistic knife as defined by wikipedia. Since there's a paragraph about switchblades, why are we even talking about ballistic knives?

Boils down to this: if a cop or judge wants to mess with you, or if they're tying together your knife carrying to an unrelated crime, then you may end up in court. Chances are once in court you won't be charged with carrying a switchblade or ballistic knife. There's already a lot of legal precedent. Just my 2cents..
 
Sorry about the state count error. I guess the safe thing to do is not to bring a one handed opener to NY. I live in TN. Hopefully it is OK to have and hold this type of Knife In TN.
 
Bryan, You seem to be an intelligent person. I consider myself the same. I worked for the city in law enforcement for years and have been in court enough to be approved as an expert witness in two different disciplines. Having supervised officers and their lower level supervisors never ever believe or take as the final word any officers determination of what is or is not a legal knife. I have had several conversations with ADAs and one DA as to what knives are illegal in NY. There is alot of gray area, but no one has ever used the ballistic knife is a switchblade arguement. You are being overly creative in your thinking. All due respect, you have been shown how you are wrong, but you seem to feel you still have not been. I have seen that attitude many times, and there is no telling you different. If you feel you know the law better than all of us, then please show us one case of a CPW 3 or CPW 4 arrest or conviction that the basis of which held an assisted opener to meet the standard of a ballstic knife ( I will give you a hint : they hold pre trial hearings to determine if a knife is what the ADA stated it to be, oh but you must know that right?). We all await your detailed answer.

As for the posted link about AOs, I had not seen that one before. Thanks. It is mostly correct, but there are some errors. First there is additional penality in NY for a felon carrying a illegal knife true, but there is no law similar to the firearms law that bans a felon from owning a legal knife. The link correctly shows the wording of the law, and how I think it should be followed, but the NYPD legal division seems to side with AOs being dangerous knives since they are " designed primilarly for use as a weapon". The NYC DA of present has called them switchblades openly ( he is wrong, but that needs to be fought).
 

This is old news. It is also a city thing (Manhattan). It does not apply to the state of New York. Show me case evidence where the state court system defines an AO as being illegal in the state of New York.

if the courts actually defined AO as being "a knife that opens by applying pressure to a device in the handle--that device is the blade itself," then they would be making every folding knife with a thumb stud, thumb hole, thumb disc, etc illegal as they all open by "applying pressure to...the blade itself."

Think about it... and then present us with case history. Leave city ordinances out of it as it was not part of the original question.
 
The NY law says "projected" as in projectile... They don't mean "opened" as in the previous paragraph regarding switchblades. They mean a ballistic knife as defined by wikipedia. Since there's a paragraph about switchblades, why are we even talking about ballistic knives?

Boils down to this: if a cop or judge wants to mess with you, or if they're tying together your knife carrying to an unrelated crime, then you may end up in court. Chances are once in court you won't be charged with carrying a switchblade or ballistic knife. There's already a lot of legal precedent. Just my 2cents..

I thought of this yesterday and I agree this is a very good point--how the word "projected" will be construed. It was obviously meant as you state, but unfortunately it is not completely unambiguous.
 
It seems to me the wrong point was originally highlighted. If you look at #4 from the NY regulations I think it is more relevant to this discussion

- 4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens
automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other
device in the handle of the knife. -
 
I thought of this yesterday and I agree this is a very good point--how the word "projected" will be construed. It was obviously meant as you state, but unfortunately it is not completely unambiguous.

There are rules of construction that guide courts in interpretating statutes, and in this case, the fact that the legislature chose to use the word "projected" rather than "opened," and the fact that they're defining a "ballistic" knife would be enough to clear up any ambiguity for any competent judge.
 
Anyway, to answer the OP, yes, assisted opening knives are legal in all 50 states. However, your local jurisdiction may be more restrictive.
 
Bryan, You seem to be an intelligent person. I consider myself the same. I worked for the city in law enforcement for years and have been in court enough to be approved as an expert witness in two different disciplines. Having supervised officers and their lower level supervisors never ever believe or take as the final word any officers determination of what is or is not a legal knife. I have had several conversations with ADAs and one DA as to what knives are illegal in NY. There is alot of gray area, but no one has ever used the ballistic knife is a switchblade arguement. You are being overly creative in your thinking. All due respect, you have been shown how you are wrong, but you seem to feel you still have not been. I have seen that attitude many times, and there is no telling you different. If you feel you know the law better than all of us, then please show us one case of a CPW 3 or CPW 4 arrest or conviction that the basis of which held an assisted opener to meet the standard of a ballstic knife ( I will give you a hint : they hold pre trial hearings to determine if a knife is what the ADA stated it to be, oh but you must know that right?). We all await your detailed answer.

As for the posted link about AOs, I had not seen that one before. Thanks. It is mostly correct, but there are some errors. First there is additional penality in NY for a felon carrying a illegal knife true, but there is no law similar to the firearms law that bans a felon from owning a legal knife. The link correctly shows the wording of the law, and how I think it should be followed, but the NYPD legal division seems to side with AOs being dangerous knives since they are " designed primilarly for use as a weapon". The NYC DA of present has called them switchblades openly ( he is wrong, but that needs to be fought).

To a certain extent, I think you and others are battling straw men here, and perhaps this is my fault for not communicating effectively. Let me put some of strawman arguments to rest: I agree that AO knives are not switchblades. I agree that the intent of the ballistic knife definition was to outlaw knives that shoot blades across the room. I do not believe (or claim) to know the law better than anybody here. But these are tangential issues.

Let me start over and say that my main contention here is that these laws are susceptible to exploitation by anti-knife interests within the NY state government, due to their ambiguous language. That is my main argument and that is what concerns/interests me. The evidence that I've seen suggests that NY has been attempting to exploit this ambiguity for some time.

The law is a strange animal. It is an emergent consequence of human interpretation of written language, and humans are not unbiased. The law is dynamic. Old laws can change without actually changing--but simply by virtue of being interpreted in new ways. Yes, I'm being creative in my thinking about this. But this is because I believe that lawyers who wish to change the meaning of these laws are being creative in their thinking. I'm attempting to anticipate how they will try to exploit these laws.

It is great that you have chimed in here, given that you worked in NYC law enforcement. What is your opinion on carrying these knives in New York? Do you believe that a person can carry an AO knife around New York without concern?
 
Now that I can 100% agree with. The anti-gun/knife/human rights/constitution/etc. nuts out there, holding public office, often do their best to reinterpret law to fit their warped ideas.

To a certain extent, I think you and others are battling straw men here, and perhaps this is my fault for not communicating effectively. Let me put some of strawman arguments to rest: I agree that AO knives are not switchblades. I agree that the intent of the ballistic knife definition was to outlaw knives that shoot blades across the room. I do not believe (or claim) to know the law better than anybody here. But these are tangential issues.

Let me start over and say that my main contention here is that these laws are susceptible to exploitation by anti-knife interests within the NY state government, due to their ambiguous language. That is my main argument and that is what concerns/interests me. The evidence that I've seen suggests that NY has been attempting to exploit this ambiguity for some time.

The law is a strange animal. It is an emergent consequence of human interpretation of written language, and humans are not unbiased. The law is dynamic. Old laws can change without actually changing--but simply by virtue of being interpreted in new ways. Yes, I'm being creative in my thinking about this. But this is because I believe that lawyers who wish to change the meaning of these laws are being creative in their thinking. I'm attempting to anticipate how they will try to exploit these laws.

It is great that you have chimed in here, given that you worked in NYC law enforcement. What is your opinion on carrying these knives in New York? Do you believe that a person can carry an AO knife around New York without concern?
 
"It is great that you have chimed in here, given that you worked in NYC law enforcement. What is your opinion on carrying these knives in New York? Do you believe that a person can carry an AO knife around New York without concern? "

Already answered in two of my posts. The closer to NYC you are in NYS the better chance you will be immedately arrested. In all of NYS an officer could clearly express a belief it fit the defintion of a dangerous knife, and all but two AOs I have ever seen and handled ( that would be in the hundreds) could also be flicked open, which in NYS is a gravity knife reguardless of the design of the knife ( other methods of opening).

We could discuss "what ifs" all day long but that gets us no where. The wording for dangerous knife is always a concern, but the ballistic knife is clearly written as to what was being banned. Could some one say something else? Sure. If your bored, look at the old vs the new Florida law. I believe in 2003 the law was changed to say switchblades were legal ( they always were but one court of appeals judge felt they fell into the ballistic knife defintion and he wrote a crazy explanation of that belief.) The law was changed to reword what is legal due to his ruling.

I consider the NY question answered to any reasonable person's quest for knowledge.

As for the OP's question, I do not believe you can safely assume they are legal in all 50 states as the way the laws are written. There are some states that prohibit a spring knife, and automatic knife etc. We know these to be different, but they could be viewed as illegal. Cold Steel says their TiLite is the 50 state legal switchblade look alike, but there are many states with blade lenght limits, and other restrictions that contradict this statement. I suggest you clearly look at the laws where you live and travel. Ask a ADA and get the answer in writing ( a letter or printed out email).
 
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AZ Governor Signs Nation's First Knife Preemption Law!
April 28: Arizona Governor Jan Brewer has signed the the nation's first Knife Preemption Law, advanced by Knife Rights. The bill, SB1153, was passed by bipartisan votes of 36-19 in the Arizona House and 19-9 in the Arizona Senate. It will take effect 90 days after the legislature adjourns, expected this week, and not only prevents political subdivisions from enacting new ordinances and rules, but voids all existing restrictive knife ordinances. In combination with Arizona's recently enacted constitutional concealed carry law, knife owners in Arizona will enjoy the most accommodating knife laws in the country.

read the final bill with Governor Brewer's requested amendments incorporated (which improved the final bill).
Arizona Knife Law Premption
(Final text of the law with the Governor's requested amendments incorporated)
Section 1. Title 13, chapter 31, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 13-3120, to read:

13-3120. Knives regulated by state; state preemption; definitions
A. Except as provided in subsections C and D, a political subdivision of this state shall not enact any ordinance, rule or tax relating to the transportation, possession, carrying, sale, transfer, purchase, gift, devise, licensing, registration or use of a knife or knife making components in this state.

B. A political subdivision of this state shall not enact any rule or ordinance that relates to the manufacture of a knife and that is more prohibitive than or that has a penalty that is greater than any rule or ordinance that is related to the manufacture of any other commercial goods.

C. This section does not prohibit a political subdivision of this state from enacting and enforcing any ordinance or rule pursuant to state law, to implement or enforce state law or relating to imposing any privilege or use tax on the retail sale, lease or rental of, or the gross proceeds or gross income from the sale, lease or rental of, a knife or any knife components at a rate that applies generally to other items of tangible personal property.

D. This section does not prohibit a political subdivision of this state from regulating employees or independent contractors of the political subdivision who are acting within the course and scope of their employment or contract.

E. A political subdivision's rule or ordinance that relates to knives and that is inconsistent with or more restrictive than state law, whether enacted before or after the effective date of this amendment to this section, is null and void.

F. For the purposes of this section:

1. "Knife" means a cutting instrument and includes a sharpened or pointed blade.

2. "Political subdivision" includes any county, city, including a charter city, town, municipal corporation or special district, any board, commission or agency of a county, city, including a charter city, town, municipal corporation or special district or any other local public agency.

Legislative intent

It is the intent of the legislature to preempt the regulation of knives in this state. Knife regulation is of statewide concern. Therefore, the legislature intends to limit the ability of any political subdivision of this state to regulate knives. This act applies to any ordinance enacted before or after the effective date of this act.

NOTE: In addition, section 15-341, Arizona Revised Statutes; relating to weapons, was amended by adding reference to this new section 13-3120 to mirror the existing inclusion of the firearms preemption section. This will allow schools to continue to prohibit knives on campus, if they so choose, maintaining the status quo in this regard.






The passage of Arizona's Knife Preemption Law is precedent setting for knife owner rights. Arizona is the first state to establish specific preemption for knife laws and this represents the successful kick-off of Knife Rights' National Knife Law Preemption Campaign, a key component of Knife Rights’ national legislative agenda to protect and enhance knife owners’ rights. Knife Rights anticipates that the Arizona preemption law will serve as a model for preemption efforts in other states whose citizens are subject to a similar patchwork of restrictive local knife laws with attendant civil rights issues. We have already been approached by a number of legislators and citizens who want to initiate knife law preemption for their states. Knife Rights will aggressively pursue these opportunities.

Knife Rights' national strategy is to work to enact knife preemption laws throughout the United States. This would afford the same protection to knife owners that firearms owners in forty six states already enjoy (New Jersey is unique in that it provides for preemption for all criminal statues, which also includes knives, but it does not have a specific knife preemption law). Arizona is just the start.

Preemption prevents the creation of, or eliminates, a patchwork of ordinances and rules which serve to confuse or entrap those traveling within or through the state. A person traveling in a state without preemption laws could be charged with a violation of local law when they have no intention of violating the law. Further, local ordinances often violate the right to bear arms as guaranteed by the Second Amendment and, in many cases, by the state’s own constitution.

Knife Rights sincerely appreciates the strong legislative leadership provided by the bill's primary sponsor, Arizona Senate Majority Leader Chuck Gray, as well as the support of co-sponsors: Senators Ron Gould, Russell Pearce, Frank Antenori, Jack Harper, Al Melvin, Jonathan Paton and Thayer Verschoor and Representatives David Gowan, Carl Seel, David Stevens, Cecil Ash, Ray Barnes, Andy Biggs, Judy Burges, Steve Court, Debbie Lesko, Steve Montenegro, Rick Murphy and Warde Nichols. Thanks also to all the legislators, from both sides of the aisle, who voted for the preemption bill. At a time when partisan politics seems the norm, the bipartisan support was very welcome and testament to the common-sense appeal of knife law preemption.
 
If you just Google "Pilum ballistic knife" you will find pictures of them, and they definitely different from assisted opening knives. The blade of the Pilum ballistic knife actually leaves from the handle as a projectile. (Hence the term "ballistic".) The picture below should clarify things.

f9d5f45ec599853b559478974b3f82d0-ballistic-knife.jpg
 
It may very well be the case that I am wrong, but nobody in this thread as of yet has made that case.

The term 'ballistic' refers to projectiles. Objects in flight. I think the we're talking about a knife that shoots it's blade across the room. My Benchmade AO does not do this.

I'm thinking they haven't redefined the word 'ballistic' when they could have simply plainly outlawed the knives in question.

Then again I may be wrong.

SP
 
52 states....funny.

after the midterms it might be 52 pr and guam? does federal law trump state law or am i backasswards thinking? also there are exceptions in federal law with regards to having the use of one arm, how is that contested. i also think its how you talk . and walk. if you screw around with police you will get screwed back harder. just keep cool and lie lie lie. then deny
 
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