Are ball bearings really needed

And, the manure about bearing knives needing to be disassembled for cleaning is absolutely untrue. Running water and the air in your lungs work just fine for me now for several years.
 
shinyedges said:
It's always funny when someone starts a "discussion" and has their mind made up several years in advance.
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Glad i made you laugh. But i was actually looking to have a discussion. I was curious of peoples opinions. Im actually stuck in the middle when it comes to my opinion on this subject. The spyderco advocate thread got me wondering how would that knife be without bearing. I love knives and enjoy any conversation about them.
 
I prefer washers for the simplicity and they seem to require a little less maintenance. That said, I don't avoid ball-bearings but don't see them as needed, or desirable, they are simply another option. I guess it's the whole, less moving parts thing.

I don't disassemble to clean bearings, I just squirt a little light oil in there and let it work it's way out. It's not like the bearings are getting heavy use and heating up or anything such that they need to be super clean to keep from damaging themselves.
 
I think bearings are a want just like I don't need a V8 in a car but they make them and people buy them. Alot of things these day are wants instead of need.
 
115Italian said:
So exaxtly who are you insulting with your criptic message. A bladeforum member who has a bearing flipper like say the poor guy having problems with his spyderco advocate. Or me for starting this thread. Either way we're affected.
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Not you. You seem to be asking a genuine question.

Not the guy having trouble with his Advocate, either.

I am insulting the many people who think that just because they don't like some style of knife it shouldn't be produced anymore, thereby depriving the people who do like it. That kind of arrogance gets insults from me, even if their whining is useless. Thankfully for the people who like them, bearing flippers are here to stay.

Yup. Wasn't all that cryptic. ;)
 
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It's always nice to have a choice. How dull would this hobby be if we didn't have the choices we have now. How much fun would it be if we all had the same steel in all the knives we own??? So yes, bearings are needed in some knives to keep things fun and interesting.
When I'm sitting in front of the T.V./ computer, I always opt for the knife that has the bearings, because I can flip it a thousand times and it's fun.
I've tried it with slip joints, flickers, fixed blades and they're not as much fun and require more of my attention so I don't cut myself :eek:.
 
SpySmasher said:
I am insulting the many people who think that just because they don't like some style of knife it shouldn't be produced anymore, thereby depriving the people who do like it.
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I didn't see anyone saying anything remotely like that in this thread, so it's kind of hard to understand where you're coming from.

SpySmasher said:
That kind of arrogance gets insults from me, even if their whining is useless. Thankfully for the people who like them, bearing flippers are here to stay.
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Again, this is a head-scratcher. Who is being arrogant or insulting here?
 
shinyedges said:
Running water and the air in your lungs work just fine for me now for several years.
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That hasn't been my experience, though every knife and bearing system is different. For me, I haven't really seen a great benefit to bearings. They're nice when clean, but I have had some issues with dirt/grit. From my perspective, that makes for a trade-off that's not necessarily worthwhile.

Just sharing my experience, as the OP requested...which is what forums like this are meant for :)
 
Emre said:
I didn't see anyone saying anything remotely like that in this thread, so it's kind of hard to understand where you're coming from.

Again, this is a head-scratcher. Who is being arrogant or insulting here?
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I think it's a reference to previous threads on the subject where it quickly degenerates to exactly what he is referencing. It's one of those 'trigger' issues on the forum apparently. Like mentioning clone knives, Bark River, etc. :)
 
I have Benchmades that run on PB washers and are among the smoothest knives I own. So you don't need them to make a smooth knife.

That said I don't hate them as long as they are not causing issues by eating through supporting metal washers or into the scales themselves. Also captive bearings please!!!!
 
It should be blatantly obvious that bearings are smoother (read as: lower friction) than washers in ANY situation requiring a load. This should be common sense...which means I need to explain this.

Pick your favorite: (Rotary tools, dentist drill, computer fan, cd drive, wheel, motor). All of these systems are heavily optimized for efficiency, which means research was chosen over silly opinions. All of these systems use bearings. Bearings are best for efficiency in a rotating system. Optimized for efficiency means lowest friction (both mechanical and electrical). Therefore, bearings are the lowest friction solution for a rotating system in these situations.

This means, any claim that a washer knife is smoother (read as: lower friction) than a bearing knife is BS. If you think it is, either your bearing knife pivot is too tight, your washer knife pivot is too loose (full face not in contact), or your bearings are garbage (AKA not bearings).

With that said, for a knife, I do prefer washers. That glassy hydraulic feedback beats the no-feedback bearing action. I also prefer simpler systems with lower chance of failure, so washers win another point. I do see the merit of bearings though, if you want absolute lowest friction in your knife.

One thing I have seen people bring up against bearings is that they eat into the scales. Does anyone have any evidence of this?
 
^^^ seems kind of silly to compare the tiny, thin (and often flimsy) bearing washers in a folding knife to something like automotive wheel bearings. Mechanisms that have no axial load but spin at extremely high RPM for sustained periods of time clearly need to be on bearings.

In the context of a folding knife, the efficiency of blade rotation has to be balanced with the ability to handle axial loads from twisting/prying etc. Very different from computer fans, CD drives, rotary drills, and all the other examples you list.

Yes, I know you're not "supposed" to apply axial loads to your folding knife...but what's the point of the massively popular class of "overbuilt" folders if you don't lay into them from time to time?
 
A lot of good feedback. Glad to see everyone getting a long.

What im gathering from everyone is most people agree that ball bearings are not needed. They aren't a "must have" in certain knives but a "good to have".

Someone mentioned its nice to have options, great point. Someone mentioned that ball bearing are just that much more smoother, another great point. Another positive that im seeing some say is you can tighten the pivot more which provides a more stable knife.

The negatives come down to pretty much the ball bearings do not operate very well dirty. They also have a habbit of wearing tracks into what ever them are riding in or on.
 
I can tighten my Hinderers down where they won't flip. I loosen them up where they flip really well, the blades aren't centered closed and they have blade play open. The bearing flippers aren't affected nearly as much, by pivot tension.
 
I have been carrying my waved 804cf for almost a year now, I also happen to be a machinist with the equipment to measure the "track" worn in to the titanium. Bearing naysayers always talk about the track, yet not a single one has shown a pivot that has a track worn beyond tenths! Which means it is negligible wear over the lifetime of the user. Jeesh.

I'll measure it on Monday.
 
I guess I'm also a lucky fella since bloody, guts, sawdust and dirt are a regular on my farm and I've had no issues. Shrug.

Has the pivot been gritty after being covered with blood and dropped? Yep. A rinse with the hose or bowl of water I put all my knives in when butchering does just fine.
 
Has a knife maker ever tried something in between a flat washer and bearings? My understanding with bearings is to give less surface area contact between the blade and scales, while reducing friction due to the rolling of the bearings. What about a washer that has bumps on it to simulate a similar contact area like bearings? Kind of like the reverse of the CRK washers with grease pockets.

If they don't exist yet, I'd name them Bear-washers. :P
 
A fixed blade is probably the only "needed" knife, but bearings are great IMO. It wasn't long ago that I knew that they were stupid and vulnerable. After having a few good bearing flippers since, I've changed my tune. Watching the blade close on my ZTs is as much fun as flipping them open. Those knives also easy to take apart and clean.

It's also funny to see the same people hate on bearings in different threads. It seems like they're trying to talk themselves into hating them.
 
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