Are Emerson Knives as Good as they say

mystro said:
Yes, Emerson knives are very good.
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Argghh.. Stop posting that! It really makes me want to get one but I can't afford it just yet :p I'll probably have to get rid of some sharp things to make room for it!
 
I EDC a CQC-10 and have had no problems whatsoever. Having said that, I prefer Spyderco and am getting ready to sell the Emerson so that I can buy a Manix 2 in Carpenter steel.
 
Most second hand Emersons I've handled were sub-par. My new CQC-11 is in great shape. Locks tend to depreciate fast from what I've observed. I'd go for a framelock conversion the day I can find a maker who'll do it.
 
I had an Emerson chisel-ground "tanto" CQC7 (made by Benchmade) from the 1st production run when I went through my not-brief-enough "tactical" phase. The ergos were crude, boxy and uncomfortable; the blade became wobbly unless the pivot was over-tight; it had a very late lockup; two of the three clip screws fell out; the relatively useless trendy blade profile was chisel-ground on the wrong side for a right-handed user, and it was very cheaply finished and just dog ugly. Most disappointing hype-driven knife I've ever purchased.
 
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Rick said:
Most disappointing hype-driven knife I've ever purchased.
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I've see that myself in EKI knives. To some extent in Cold Steel also as both of these companies make a lot of wild claims that can't be backed up in real world use from time to time. Some can, but not all. Call it advertisement if you want to be nice, hype if you want to call it as it is. I have always found it interesting that Emerson makes videos, hypes their products and does pretty much the same things that Cold Steel does yet never gets any negative press from it like Cold Steel. Both are full of it for the most part but honestly if you want a true hard use folding knife in this world I don't think you can do better than a $75 Cold Steel American Lawman or Recon 1 folder using the Triad lock by Cold Steel. In this regard Cold Steel is not just spouting hype blowing smoke up your a$$. The Triad locking models walk the walk based on the ones I've bought and own.

Back to topic. My take on Emerson could be a very long post because there are several things going on with that company where I feel they are cutting corners in how they are building their products and selling them while keeping the price the same to end line users. One of those areas that always stood out to me is the chisel grind. If you like it hey great. I'm happy for you but I have little use for it personally. From a makers stand point it does cut your grinding in half, speed production and probably reduces wear on the equipment used to do your grinding since you only have to do one side. Ingenious for maximizing profit and materials cost I guess particularly since you can actually sell them and people will buy them. Only Ernie could pull that off I think and stick the grind on the wrong side all the while. Go figure.

The other thing that bugs me is the stainless non lock side liner instead of titanium. This has been the case since 2007. I have written on every warranty card I've mailed in to Emerson since they did this that it was a bad idea. Honestly that was a bad idea from the start to do away with titanium on the non lock side. For one the detent tab which is in the non lock side on Emersons is now placed in a material that does not keep a memory set worth a crap! This is not that good of a stainless steel in my opinion. If I'm not mistaken its the cheapest stainless you can use, a 300 series stainless that can't even be heat treated. What this means is that eventually, usually from a user taking his knife apart to clean it and simply laying the liner down flat on a table, that tab holding the detent ball on the inside of the non lock side liner will lose the memory set for tension that was put on it from the factory. This simple act of laying that liner flat on the table and pushing it a little nearly flattens the tab back in flush with the liner and will make the knife such that the tip of the blade can stick up or fall out during carry. In essence when this happens you inadvertently created a gravity knife by taking the knife apart to clean it. I've done it myself and I've diagnosed it as happening on others knives since Emerson went to this stainless non lock side. I do not recall ever having to deal with this when they used titanium. Then we could discuss fit and finish issues which are already brought up in other threads elsewhere. Probably lots of savings here on Emerson's part since finish is non existent. Bottom line on this issue is that for the money Emerson does not keep up with the competition and in fact falls way short. Truth be told you can buy a $24 or $30 China made Persistence or Tenacious model by Spyderco or any number of Byrd folders from them and get a better F&F than any Emerson.

Customers tell me that EKI has told them to simply tighten the pivot more to correct this so the blade does not fall open during carry from running or falling. Customers tell me that doing this makes Waving it open harder to do and less reliable. In some cases I've had customers send me the knives to just remove the Wave altogether because the use of it was not all that great the way they had to keep the pivot tension to make it reliable for carry. Some have sent their knives to me to activate the detent ball in the lock. I've probably done this to 40 plus or minus Emerson knives since 2007 in an effort to keep the knives from being deemed 'gravity knives' by law enforcement for customers carrying one. Emerson now no longer sells knives to residents of New York because New York considers the knives gravity knives and this all boils down to manufacturers (not just Emerson) simply not building the knives correctly. They can make them right! I've seen them. I guess its easier to just drop a market than it is to simply build them correctly in the first place though. :jerkit:

I'll try to keep this short and sweet. Some say you can do worse than Emerson. Thats probably true but also true, you can do better. I think for equal money and often times less money you can do better with Spyderco or Kershaw. Kershaw offers some models like the JYDII, made in the USA starting out for around $70 on up to more expensive limited edition ones using any number of various composite blade steels and so on. The fit and finish is excellent, the materials are just as good as anything Emerson uses and Kershaw makes their own made in the USA hardware. They also offer assisted opening or flippers which many feel are viable substitutes for the Wave and best of all you won't have laser cut lines, sharp edges, burn marks on the blades or liners or gritty rough actions but instead flawless F & F and silky smooth action. You'll probably save money too and get just as good a warrranty if not better coverage than Emerson ever offered.

Spyderco makes a super product, offers just as good a warranty as any of the above, uses superior blade steels usually and will likely have superb lock ups, superb action and a better fit and finish for equal money spent.

STR
 
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Gotta love STR!

Reading over the thread dfarr started just recently got me looking up all the feedback and reviews of the ZT 0200 that caught my eye a couple years ago.

It basically seems to be what people are looking for in an Emerson while having a much, much greater satisfaction rate and for less cost. I love several Emerson designs, who doesn't, but it would seem strange to pay 40-80% more than the ZT while knowing fit, finish, and customer service is a crapshoot.
 
I was kinda afraid to post anything negative about Emerson because they have a cult like following that would of burned me into the ground but now that I can hide behind STR I'll go ahead and say it. The CQC 7 is the worst knife over 100 dollars that I have ever bought or handled. I regret getting sucked into the hype and catching the tactical bug but I honestly felt like I got a 50 dollar knife when in reality I paid nearly $120. The worst part about it was how bad the F&F was. Blade play, very stick lock bar, rough edges, really big gaps between blade and scales, gritty opening, sloppy pivot, etc. I still think it is one of the coolest looking knives out there and it oozes bad assness but you are definitly overpaying by a wide margin for what you are getting. I regret buying it but I do still like the CQC 7 with all its blemishes and all. People are better off buying a Paramilitary 2/Military for sure though :D.
 
kawr said:
I was kinda afraid to post anything negative about Emerson because they have a cult like following that would of burned me into the ground but now that I can hide behind STR I'll go ahead and say it. The CQC 7 is the worst knife over 100 dollars that I have ever bought or handled. I regret getting sucked into the hype and catching the tactical bug but I honestly felt like I got a 50 dollar knife when in reality I paid nearly $120. The worst part about it was how bad the F&F was. Blade play, very stick lock bar, rough edges, really big gaps between blade and scales, gritty opening, sloppy pivot, etc. I still think it is one of the coolest looking knives out there and it oozes bad assness but you are definitly overpaying by a wide margin for what you are getting. I regret buying it but I do still like the CQC 7 with all its blemishes and all. People are better off buying a Paramilitary 2/Military for sure though :D.
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I do agree with this...i bought my 7 off JD used for $75, and it took alot of work to get it opening smoothly, and disengaging smoothly...also had to refinish the scales to match up with the liners and polished the liners too. Now that thats all done, i really like it alot more, but the chisel grind is impractical for edc so its really more of a "just for fun" knife. It does look insanely cool IMO:D

ETA: I do think Ernie has some really great designs in his line up, and thats why there is a following for emersons. On the other hand i would love to see him ditch the ego and work on better F&F and upgrade the steel. Also it would be nice to see him make the BOTH liners Ti and make them thicker.
 
Decent knives IMO but the F&F is crap for the cost. I like the designs, but I find the chisel grinds are useless. They would be okay if they were on the correct side. Overall, they will work but you can get much better for your money imo. I still have my emerson (a100), but Ill sell it as soon as I need to fund a new project.
 
STR said:
I've see that myself in EKI knives. To some extent in Cold Steel also as both of these companies make a lot of wild claims that can't be backed up in real world use from time to time. Some can, but not all. Call it advertisement if you want to be nice, hype if you want to call it as it is. I have always found it interesting that Emerson makes videos, hypes their products and does pretty much the same things that Cold Steel does yet never gets any negative press from it like Cold Steel. Both are full of it for the most part but honestly if you want a true hard use folding knife in this world I don't think you can do better than a $75 Cold Steel American Lawman or Recon 1 folder using the Triad lock by Cold Steel. In this regard Cold Steel is not just spouting hype blowing smoke up your a$$. The Triad locking models walk the walk based on the ones I've bought and own.

Back to topic. My take on Emerson could be a very long post because there are several things going on with that company where I feel they are cutting corners in how they are building their products and selling them while keeping the price the same to end line users. One of those areas that always stood out to me is the chisel grind. If you like it hey great. I'm happy for you but I have little use for it personally. From a makers stand point it does cut your grinding in half, speed production and probably reduces wear on the equipment used to do your grinding since you only have to do one side. Ingenious for maximizing profit and materials cost I guess particularly since you can actually sell them and people will buy them. Only Ernie could pull that off I think and stick the grind on the wrong side all the while. Go figure.

The other thing that bugs me is the stainless non lock side liner instead of titanium. This has been the case since 2007. I have written on every warranty card I've mailed in to Emerson since they did this that it was a bad idea. Honestly that was a bad idea from the start to do away with titanium on the non lock side. For one the detent tab which is in the non lock side on Emersons is now placed in a material that does not keep a memory set worth a crap! This is not that good of a stainless steel in my opinion. If I'm not mistaken its the cheapest stainless you can use. What this means is that eventually, usually from a user taking his knife apart to clean it and simply laying the liner down flat on a table, the knife will lose the memory set for tension that was put on it from the factory. This simple act of laying that liner flat on the table and pushing it a little nearly flattens the tab back in flush with the liner and will make the knife such that the tip of the blade can stick up or fall out during carry. In essence when this happens you inadvertently created a gravity knife by taking the knife apart to clean it. I've done it myself and I've diagnosed it as happening on others knives since Emerson went to this stainless non lock side. I do not recall ever having to deal with this when they used titanium. Then we could discuss fit and finish issues which are already brought up in other threads elsewhere. Bottom line there is that for the money Emerson does not keep up with the competition and in fact falls way short. Truth be told you can buy a $24 or $30 China made Persistence or Tenacious model by Spyderco or any number of Byrd folders from them and get a better F&F than any Emerson.

Customers tell me that EKI has told them to simply tighten the pivot more to correct this so the blade does not fall open during carry from running or falling. Customers tell me that doing this makes Waving it open harder to do and less reliable. In some cases I've had customers send me the knives to just remove the Wave altogether because the use of it was not all that great the way they had to keep the pivot tension to make it reliable for carry. Some have sent their knives to me to activate the detent ball in the lock. I've probably done this to 40 plus or minus Emerson knives since 2007 in an effort to keep the knives from being deemed 'gravity knives' by law enforcement for customers carrying one. Emerson now no longer sells knives to residents of New York because New York considers the knives gravity knives and this all boils down to manufacturers (not just Emerson) simply not building the knives correctly. They can make them right! I've seen them. I guess its easier to just drop a market than it is to simply build them correctly in the first place though. :jerkit:

I'll try to keep this short and sweet. Some say you can do worse than Emerson. Thats probably true but also true, you can do better. I think for equal money and often times less money you can do better with Spyderco or Kershaw. Kershaw offers some models like the JYDII, made in the USA starting out for around $70 on up to more expensive limited edition ones using any number of various composite blade steels and so on. The fit and finish is excellent, the materials are just as good as anything Emerson uses and Kershaw makes their own made in the USA hardware. They also offer assisted opening or flippers which many feel are viable substitutes for the Wave and best of all you won't have laser cut lines, sharp edges, burn marks on the blades or liners or gritty rough actions but instead flawless F & F and silky smooth action. You'll probably save money too and get just as good a warrranty if not better coverage than Emerson ever offered.

Spyderco makes a super product, offers just as good a warranty as any of the above, uses superior blade steels usually and will likely have superb lock ups, superb action and a better fit and finish for equal money spent.

STR
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kawr said:
I was kinda afraid to post anything negative about Emerson because they have a cult like following that would of burned me into the ground but now that I can hide behind STR I'll go ahead and say it. The CQC 7 is the worst knife over 100 dollars that I have ever bought or handled. I regret getting sucked into the hype and catching the tactical bug but I honestly felt like I got a 50 dollar knife when in reality I paid nearly $120. The worst part about it was how bad the F&F was. Blade play, very stick lock bar, rough edges, really big gaps between blade and scales, gritty opening, sloppy pivot, etc. I still think it is one of the coolest looking knives out there and it oozes bad assness but you are definitly overpaying by a wide margin for what you are getting. I regret buying it but I do still like the CQC 7 with all its blemishes and all. People are better off buying a Paramilitary 2/Military for sure though :D.
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:thumbup: I always feel like I'll get harassed endlessly if I criticize Emerson. thanks STR for the great post, even though, to me, it seems like an "emperor has no clothes" type of deal.

I've never handled any of the Emerson customs, though. does anyone know if these comments hold for those as well?

It seems like Emerson manages to turn his weaknesses around as strengths. where a lot of high-priced custom knives would use CPM154 or S30V or something "super," Emerson continues to use 154CM for most of his custom knives, but this becomes a strength as he has "experience with the steel," and don't get me started on the chisel grind.
 
That post was awesome.
I agree 100% with what STR said.
Emerson seems to only care about lining his pockets or else he would do something about the QC issues. It's to bad he wouldn't give benchmade permission to make the CQC8. I would buy a shit load of em.













STR said:
I've see that myself in EKI knives. To some extent in Cold Steel also as both of these companies make a lot of wild claims that can't be backed up in real world use from time to time. Some can, but not all. Call it advertisement if you want to be nice, hype if you want to call it as it is. I have always found it interesting that Emerson makes videos, hypes their products and does pretty much the same things that Cold Steel does yet never gets any negative press from it like Cold Steel. Both are full of it for the most part but honestly if you want a true hard use folding knife in this world I don't think you can do better than a $75 Cold Steel American Lawman or Recon 1 folder using the Triad lock by Cold Steel. In this regard Cold Steel is not just spouting hype blowing smoke up your a$$. The Triad locking models walk the walk based on the ones I've bought and own.

Back to topic. My take on Emerson could be a very long post because there are several things going on with that company where I feel they are cutting corners in how they are building their products and selling them while keeping the price the same to end line users. One of those areas that always stood out to me is the chisel grind. If you like it hey great. I'm happy for you but I have little use for it personally. From a makers stand point it does cut your grinding in half, speed production and probably reduces wear on the equipment used to do your grinding since you only have to do one side. Ingenious for maximizing profit and materials cost I guess particularly since you can actually sell them and people will buy them. Only Ernie could pull that off I think and stick the grind on the wrong side all the while. Go figure.

The other thing that bugs me is the stainless non lock side liner instead of titanium. This has been the case since 2007. I have written on every warranty card I've mailed in to Emerson since they did this that it was a bad idea. Honestly that was a bad idea from the start to do away with titanium on the non lock side. For one the detent tab which is in the non lock side on Emersons is now placed in a material that does not keep a memory set worth a crap! This is not that good of a stainless steel in my opinion. If I'm not mistaken its the cheapest stainless you can use. What this means is that eventually, usually from a user taking his knife apart to clean it and simply laying the liner down flat on a table, the knife will lose the memory set for tension that was put on it from the factory. This simple act of laying that liner flat on the table and pushing it a little nearly flattens the tab back in flush with the liner and will make the knife such that the tip of the blade can stick up or fall out during carry. In essence when this happens you inadvertently created a gravity knife by taking the knife apart to clean it. I've done it myself and I've diagnosed it as happening on others knives since Emerson went to this stainless non lock side. I do not recall ever having to deal with this when they used titanium. Then we could discuss fit and finish issues which are already brought up in other threads elsewhere. Bottom line there is that for the money Emerson does not keep up with the competition and in fact falls way short. Truth be told you can buy a $24 or $30 China made Persistence or Tenacious model by Spyderco or any number of Byrd folders from them and get a better F&F than any Emerson.

Customers tell me that EKI has told them to simply tighten the pivot more to correct this so the blade does not fall open during carry from running or falling. Customers tell me that doing this makes Waving it open harder to do and less reliable. In some cases I've had customers send me the knives to just remove the Wave altogether because the use of it was not all that great the way they had to keep the pivot tension to make it reliable for carry. Some have sent their knives to me to activate the detent ball in the lock. I've probably done this to 40 plus or minus Emerson knives since 2007 in an effort to keep the knives from being deemed 'gravity knives' by law enforcement for customers carrying one. Emerson now no longer sells knives to residents of New York because New York considers the knives gravity knives and this all boils down to manufacturers (not just Emerson) simply not building the knives correctly. They can make them right! I've seen them. I guess its easier to just drop a market than it is to simply build them correctly in the first place though. :jerkit:

I'll try to keep this short and sweet. Some say you can do worse than Emerson. Thats probably true but also true, you can do better. I think for equal money and often times less money you can do better with Spyderco or Kershaw. Kershaw offers some models like the JYDII, made in the USA starting out for around $70 on up to more expensive limited edition ones using any number of various composite blade steels and so on. The fit and finish is excellent, the materials are just as good as anything Emerson uses and Kershaw makes their own made in the USA hardware. They also offer assisted opening or flippers which many feel are viable substitutes for the Wave and best of all you won't have laser cut lines, sharp edges, burn marks on the blades or liners or gritty rough actions but instead flawless F & F and silky smooth action. You'll probably save money too and get just as good a warrranty if not better coverage than Emerson ever offered.

Spyderco makes a super product, offers just as good a warranty as any of the above, uses superior blade steels usually and will likely have superb lock ups, superb action and a better fit and finish for equal money spent.

STR
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I was looking at some emersons but forget it, otherwise looks they sound like a waste of money. I am hoping that emerson will make more collaborations with kershaw and release something decent with the emerson name on it, in non auto format. Speaking of witch does anyone know why kershaw makes an auto commander but pro-tech makes the auto cqc-7 and Gerber makes the auto Alliance model?
 
I had a cqc10 once, but the detent was so weak that I had to tighten the pivot to an un-smooth tension just to keep it safe... The wave was also extremely unreliable compared to my Spyderco Endura with the feature. I loved the handle and blade profile, but the limp detent made actually carrying it a joke. =\

Thanks for taking the time to explain why mine appears to have had that issue, STR.
 
misterjuiceman said:
:thumbup: I always feel like I'll get harassed endlessly if I criticize Emerson. thanks STR for the great post, even though, to me, it seems like an "emperor has no clothes" type of deal.

I've never handled any of the Emerson customs, though. does anyone know if these comments hold for those as well?
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Really, its not so much a no clothes kind of deal. Stick with the facts best you can and if some criticize it let it go. Emerson knives can work well enough once you get past the break in. Somewhere along the line Ernie decided fit and finish was not necessary for a tool and if customers don't like it and buy the products after he has made it clear he has no intention of changing that policy well, then they have no one to blame but themselves for supporting the policy by purchasing the knives. When and if Ernie decides an image change is needed well, as agents in Hollywood tell their clients, "if you want to make an image change it starts in front of a mirror". His majority support base has no problem with the lacking finish apparently but that doesn't mean it won't be mentioned in an apples to apples comparison to other products. It is what it is and sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade.

As for my comments earlier: I'm just calling it as it is really by comparing products side by side and thats all. Thats all it really boils down to. I have no animosity for any of the companies or the man and just spit it out as it is period. Ernest has acknowledged the fit and finish issues. Its out there, its fact and no one can dispute it. He is well aware of it and the fact that it bothers some and he commented on it publically.

I was emailed earlier and I'll address that here too. So not jealous as one person already accused me of earlier. Jealous? Really?! I made 12 folding knives last year, 2 more than I intended to make for the year. Of that 12 I gave away three to family, still have two for myself and sold the remaining ones. I like it that way. I don't want a job, and don't need one either. I have cut back on jobs I'll do and if you don't believe that just ask anyone. Jealous? No. If anything I feel sorry for Ernie. I think he and his company and perhaps his ego have gotten too big for their own good. I used to buy from EKI and support them because I thought they were worth the extra $ and I believed it was worth the little bit more even with their faults. I mean they were not and are not the biggest company out there but they were big enough to serve my needs and more importantly they were small enough to care about them. Now it seems they are still big enough to serve but also big enough to no longer give a crap about it. I find that sad. In my opinion EKI owes everyone a humble apology for having their head in a cloud for so long and not realizing it. Instead of that though what we get is Ernie, who rarely posts other than when he wants to sell something, comes in and basically calls his customers liars saying their claims of some legit issues are bogus, sets up an imaginary straw man and kicks him on his imaginary a$$ and then decries to the world that the naysayers are debunked while those still blinded by the illusion cheer on!

What I said can be verified by anyone that cares to look. Its not bashing or negative if its true. Its just what is there, how it is, the facts as they stand and so on. The point isn't that Emerson's don't have their merits. Emerson obviously has merits and plus points, ergos only being one of them, the Wave another if that is something you like but when we compare to other brands in similar or lesser price points you begin to get a true picture of what is there. Well, providing you are not one that suffers from the illusion and hype presented that blinds you to what is right in front of you. I realize some still swear there is no issue with fit and finish at all and don't see what I see. Thats fine believe it if you like but I'm reminded of showing my first Emerson, a SARK to a neighbor years ago. It had green handles, .040 liners that flexed when you pushed up on the spine of the blade once it was locked open and it cost me quite a bit of money.

My neighbor looked it over (never heard of Emerson and knew nothing of the company or the man) and looked at me, looked at the knife, looked at me and asked, 'how much did you give for this again?' And I told him and he kind of cleared his throat and said quietly, "you got took, I'd send it back" and this was later elaborated on for his reasons, 1) finish, and 2) gritty feeling opening, 3) thin liners and 4) off center blade which really wasn't off since it was chisel grind but he said that as he pulled out a Kershaw Scallion he bought at Wal-Mart showing me that one and said, "I could have bought six of these for what you give for that green thing". I've always seen through the veil of illusion though and mostly since that day letting someone not swayed by the legend or hype show me what is really there. Forget the logo. Look at what it is. Where was it ever written that a tool can't be finished and still work hard or that a tool need not be finished out? I mean really!? Ernie used to belong to the Guild. I don't think he does now but he did at one time. He knows how to finish a knife and his customs show that.

STR
 
I like EKI. I've owned several, and enjoyed them. Do I think they are the best knives around? No. Do they have F&F issues? Yes. However, they have really good designs, and some of the 'other' stuff they put out is cool. The skull beads, clips, etc. are neat. My avatar is an EKI design. I just think it looks cool.

Steve said it better than I could. There are a couple big problems with EKI that are not being addressed. Cheaping out on materials is the biggest for me. And, I'm sorry, but that is what is happening. And, when there are companies like Spyderco out there producing knives in the same price range, and who constantly try to go "highier end" in materials, as opposed to cheap... well, EKI has a hard time stacking up. What's in my pocket right now? Spyderco Military. It's what an Emerson -should- be.
 
I've only owned one Emerson, a Mini Commander, that I ended up selling due to how it fit my hand. I had no issues with the F&F of the knife, though. My take is a simple one in that the company recently expanded ,so they must be doing something right regardless of negative comments here, or they wouldn't be in business doing as well as they do. Perhaps it's only a matter of time before customers stop buying the knives if they really are sub-par, but anywhere else I read about Emerson Knives there isn't as much discontent as is read on this forum.

Just my take based on what I've read, though.
 
I'll refrain from bashing ... think I've owned 13 Emersons.

I was really into the wave .... but had all of the problems mentioned in this thread and more.

The Customs and Collectors knives are way better than the production knives.

I'll never buy another Emerson.
 
I owned one, Commander. Didn't like it in the end. Wrote negative review on my site, took quite a bit of heat for it here too, it was a long time ago. Dunno why I even engaged in those arguments.
My major complaints - the grind on the wrong side, pivot issues, thinner than most of the major makers liners, etc.
As I was told by EKI fans, I didn't understand the knife purpose :) And it wasn't for utility use. Sold it later. Never bought another one.
 
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