Are the Chinese eating the USA's lunch in knives? (no jingoistic intent)

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Chronovore said:
You're thinking of 12C27. There is a big difference between 12C27 and 14C28N. The former is okay but the latter continues to be one of the best budget steels used in knives under $100, especially when run a little harder. If you like a particular design from Civivi in that steel, give it a shot.
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The garberg that I once had was 14C28N. There is an improvement in performance but not compared to what I'm used to in terms of performance in steels. The conspirator looks to be ergonomic and has a great blade geometry. I just don't think I'd want to go backwards in a sense. Maybe one day, who knows.
 
Value matters to most people, myself included. More competition is a good thing. At the 20 to 50 dollar price point there isn't anything I've seen made domestically that competes favorably. That seems to start around the 100+mark, and that can be a hard price for people who aren't into knives to accept.
 
I try to buy American & support my local economy. That said, in the under $100 range, I'm not finding many American made knives that I like. I currently have a Knafs Co Lander (made by QSP Knives) in Sandvik 14C28N in my pocket. I splurged a bit and also put aftermarket scales by Unlocked Composites (American owned) on it. My usual go-to daily work knife is a Civivi Baby Banter. I like the Civivi Baby Banter so much I'm thinking about getting the Damascus version & putting Unlocked Composite scales on it. Most of my other go-to knives are by either Spyderco or Benchmade - the majority of which easily cost over $100.

This year at BLADE show I spent a good bit of time at the WE/Civivi/Sencut, Kizer & QSP booths. I came away impressed with a lot of their offerings. The Chinese knife companies learned their lessons very well making knives for American companies.
 
They make some good knivesbut I would say no. I still vastly prefer my spydercos and benchmades as users. Not to mention we have companies like GEC making incredible traditional knives that they just can’t match in that arena.
 
Lots of great points being made on this one.... Not sure about them eating our lunch but I think it would be interesting if someone tracked annual sales figures between Chinese manufacturers and their American counterparts within the $200-300 price range. I say this because it's my belief that WE knives was actually able to cut into ZT, Benchmade and Spyderco sales over the last few years. I would say they took a third of the market away from those big name brand manufacturers, possibly more. WE opened the door for other Chinese companies looking to get into the knife market. If there is one group who wouldn't mind spending less on knives I would imagine it would be the latest generation of knife collectors. I don't spend much on Chinese knives but there are obvious reasons to make exceptions, some of the stuff is downright cool. Reate comes to mind when purchasing those one-off must haves.
 
I definitely think China is selling more knives in the US in the $40 to $100+ range because USA knives made in that range are rarely made as well or with the quality of materials coming out of the better Chinese OEMs and brands. And since knives in that range sell way more units than knives that are $250+, I'd imagine that China is making a lot more money in the knife market overall than USA made.

However, I really doubt that knives in the $250+ range made in China are outselling luxury USA made brands like Hinderer, CRK, ZT, BM, Spyderco, etc.
 
Im sure some of the people who work in these Chinese companies are knife enthusiasts,too. I bought a CJRB Chord knife,and among other things it has a pivot collar.To do this on a 70.00 knife,i think was an extra step taken that they didnt have to do.
 
ferider said:
OP, how does your EF335 compare to your grail in F&F and usability, the Reate Exo ? Is there a difference when comparing the two Chinese knives ?
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I bought reate because it looked great. And by the way is quite excellent and cost a bundle. The EF335 was chump change, blade centered nicely, strider look, really fast, snappy flip with that nice sound and monster blade. They serve different purposes with the reate the high class gentlemen knife and EF335 a very, very nice EDC (it's not my edc, those are Emerson's) under any circumstance.
 
ShitsInaBush said:
Lots of great points being made on this one.... Not sure about them eating our lunch but I think it would be interesting if someone tracked annual sales figures between Chinese manufacturers and their American counterparts within the $200-300 price range. I say this because it's my belief that WE knives was actually able to cut into ZT, Benchmade and Spyderco sales over the last few years. I would say they took a third of the market away from those big name brand manufacturers, possibly more. WE opened the door for other Chinese companies looking to get into the knife market. If there is one group who wouldn't mind spending less on knives I would imagine it would be the latest generation of knife collectors. I don't spend much on Chinese knives but there are obvious reasons to make exceptions, some of the stuff is downright cool. Reate comes to mind when purchasing those one-off must haves.
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I really like your comment, "there are obvious reasons to make exceptions". Mind if I use it?
 
MolokaiRider said:
I would not say they are beating US made knives, but they have certainly caused disruption.

The price points offered are hard to compete with, for obvious reasons.

I will say, that in some cases when purchasing a knife made in China, you are gambling with the assumption it is made as advertised.
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Excellent observation!
 
DocJD said:
I just can't warm to most of the designs of the mid priced China brands . 🤷‍♂️

The lock types , sizes etc don't ring my chimes .

I do have many Cold Steel and Spyderco made in Taiwan , but IMO , that's not the same as PRC .
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I have a carefully developed double standard for countries that fought with us (USA) in Vietnam including South Korea, Taiwan, and Australia.
 
AMR11 said:
The garberg that I once had was 14C28N. There is an improvement in performance but not compared to what I'm used to in terms of performance in steels. The conspirator looks to be ergonomic and has a great blade geometry. I just don't think I'd want to go backwards in a sense. Maybe one day, who knows.
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Don't expect 14C28N to compete with well-treated super steels or traditional steels with a lot more wear resistance. Major pros for 14C28N include being among the toughest stainless blade steels, being quite stainless, being easy to worth with due to the very fine grain structure; all while holding a reasonable edge. It's a nicely balanced steel that can hit the sweet spot in a good budget knife.

That said, I think Mora only runs their 14C28N at 56-58HRC. They aren't the only company to do that. While 14C28N can still hold an okay edge at that hardness and doesn't take a massive hit in performance like M390 or D2 does at that hardness, 14C28N definitely holds a better edge when run harder. The Civivi stuff should be 58-60HRC.
 
Halfneck said:
I currently have a Knafs Co Lander (made by QSP Knives) in Sandvik 14C28N in my pocket. I splurged a bit and also put aftermarket scales by Unlocked Composites (American owned) on it. My usual go-to daily work knife is a Civivi Baby Banter. I like the Civivi Baby Banter so much I'm thinking about getting the Damascus version & putting Unlocked Composite scales on it.
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That's a good point. I've modified lots of Chinese knives using American goods and services, from custom work like the following to dropping Skiff bearings into every knife that I can. 😜

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If you rate value by price, then pretty much no one can beat China. A pocket knife with G10 handle, D2 blade and smooth 1 hand open at 30-40$ can make an Opinel or MAM look bad value.

Also, much like big companies like Amazon, Chinese companies can afford to sell at less profit or even lost to beat out the competition, which is out of question for Western companies. Knife making pre-production and human resources cost is just to much to do the same as China.

Look at "budget" maker like Morakniv, the moment they move out of their niche, their price increase to the average European made price and suddenly don't look as interesting. Some have

Other European companies change their games as well, instead of using the generic steel names, they are moving to use the property steel name, to sound fancy like the Chinese marketing. Some companies used to market knife as 440, now they market it as N695, or their old D2 are now marketed as K110 and people pick them up as better. In reality, they used the same steels all along, as N695 is 440C and K110 is D2, B-U supply a huge amount of cutlery steel globally.

I find it amusing because Joker 'Normad' N695 is praised so much lately for being a great budget "bushcraft survival", but if they use the generic 440C to market it, many will turn their eyes saying that it won't be tough enough for the task... Much mind game. But then remember that it is China who ruined the 440 steels reputation a long time ago by international mislabeling.
 
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