Are the "teething problems" of S30V and S35VN gone?

N

Naphtali

Joined
May 20, 2002
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148
S30V and, to a lesser extent, S35VN seem to be becoming standard blade material in medium-high end American-manufactured knives. Their first several years had way too many users describing problems of edges being brittle or not wearing well.

Am I accurate to write that the problems are essentially gone, that Crucible Steel's claims for these knife steels are now achieved?
 
If so, then they have been achieved by making all these CPM steels micro-fold (slightly) their apex at the very first few strikes into wood...

Rub your nail on the side of a CPM edge at any angles at 20 dps or less, and it will grab nail material over long stretches after the first few hits, or even one hit in dried Maple (S30V -2 makes-, CPM 154, CPM 3V)... Sometimes folding even after slicing 1/8" thick cardboard from an Evian 12 pack box (Gerber S30V Mark II)... CPM 3V chopping into wood will also do the same in ten chops in Maple.

To be fair, a lot of cheap Chinese or low grade 440 does even worse. High end Japanese Aus, most Randall 440B and Lile D2 usually doesn't.

Yet CPMs are still quite hard to sharpen...

Gaston
 
I don't find S30V or S35VN to be hard to sharpen at all. Actually alot of steels don't trouble me anymore, but I've had quite a few years of experience. The higher wear steels are harder to sharpen more in the sense that they wear more slowly and it can be harder to gauge your progress and if you have a bad angle ECT.

S30V and S35VN's apex is generally going to degrade or lose sharpness due to micro chipping, which is more inherit to high carbide volume steels. Basically the apex isn't as stable because more carbide is formed at the edge, think stones and pebbles in concrete as an analogy. Micro chipping is just that however, you would generally need serious magnification to even see it. Not like the edge is just blowing out visible chunks of steel (if that happens it is indicative of a poor heat treat).

Lower carbide volume steels like 3V and CPM154 tend to lose their sharpness due to the edge rolling, blunting, or flattening versus chipping.

Like Ankerson and many others have said around here there are no free lunches with steels. There is always a trade off of some sort.

Short answer I wouldn't worry about buying a knife in S30V or S35VN from a reputable manufacturer. (I personally prefer S35VN).
 
Yep, can confirm what dkb45 said. Never had either chip on me, lowest I've taken S30V was ~15dps(Spyderco HT) and S35VN 9dps, where it arguably started to roll but that was really just out of curiosity and no angle you'd usually use, if you stay 15-20 you should be absolutely fine
 
Gaston444 said:
Yet CPMs are still quite hard to sharpen...

Gaston
Click to expand...

I don't get why you say S30V and S35VN are hard to sharpen, seeing as to how you act like an authority on steels. I consider myself a pretty decent sharpener at best, and I've never had trouble resharpening S30V or S35VN. Maybe some of the other CPM steels are more difficult to sharpen due to higher levels of wear resistance, etc., but I haven't found that to be the case with S30/S35.

Jim
 
I bet a huge percentage of those knives with "issues" were later sold or traded as lnib :D. Lnib because they were basically never used and the reports were made up at worst and embellished at best.
I personally have learned that all new blades have to go through a series of use and sharpening before the steel reveals its properties.
 
Problems are gone. That's why everyone uses them. S30/S35 have transitioned from super steel to mainstream.
 
Infraction for trolling. This is not Whine and Cheese.
Gaston444 said:
If so, then they have been achieved by making all these CPM steels micro-fold (slightly) their apex at the very first few strikes into wood...

Rub your nail on the side of a CPM edge at any angles at 20 dps or less, and it will grab nail material over long stretches after the first few hits, or even one hit in dried Maple (S30V -2 makes-, CPM 154, CPM 3V)... Sometimes folding even after slicing 1/8" thick cardboard from an Evian 12 pack box (Gerber S30V Mark II)... CPM 3V chopping into wood will also do the same in ten chops in Maple.

To be fair, a lot of cheap Chinese or low grade 440 does even worse. High end Japanese Aus, most Randall 440B and Lile D2 usually doesn't.

Yet CPMs are still quite hard to sharpen...

Gaston
Click to expand...

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.7% of all ELU's will push their blade steels to the upper limits...

For the other 99.3% of us, the CPM steels, particularly s30v & s35vn, are a well balanced choice for using & maintaining. It is easy <relatively :rolleyes:> for makers to incorporate into their designs, so win/win there.

A couple supposed steel gurus have been shamed over their trolling of high carbide steels, leaving these steels and their makers holding the field.

But if you're holding off buying a blade because it's s30v, or s35vn...you're locking yourself out of some good knife models and a whole world of using your knife for slicing stuff...VERY EASY to sharpen if you have the skill and serviceable stones.
 
Never had any problems with either. Can you please reference what you are claiming was a problem prior.
 
Gaston444 said:
If so, then they have been achieved by making all these CPM steels micro-fold (slightly) their apex at the very first few strikes into wood...

Rub your nail on the side of a CPM edge at any angles at 20 dps or less, and it will grab nail material over long stretches after the first few hits, or even one hit in dried Maple (S30V -2 makes-, CPM 154, CPM 3V)... Sometimes folding even after slicing 1/8" thick cardboard from an Evian 12 pack box (Gerber S30V Mark II)... CPM 3V chopping into wood will also do the same in ten chops in Maple.

To be fair, a lot of cheap Chinese or low grade 440 does even worse. High end Japanese Aus, most Randall 440B and Lile D2 usually doesn't.

Yet CPMs are still quite hard to sharpen...

Gaston
Click to expand...
And heeeere we go...

OP, do yourself a favor and listen to other folks.
 
Gaston444 said:
If so, then they have been achieved by making all these CPM steels micro-fold (slightly) their apex at the very first few strikes into wood...

Rub your nail on the side of a CPM edge at any angles at 20 dps or less, and it will grab nail material over long stretches after the first few hits, or even one hit in dried Maple (S30V -2 makes-, CPM 154, CPM 3V)... Sometimes folding even after slicing 1/8" thick cardboard from an Evian 12 pack box (Gerber S30V Mark II)... CPM 3V chopping into wood will also do the same in ten chops in Maple.

To be fair, a lot of cheap Chinese or low grade 440 does even worse. High end Japanese Aus, most Randall 440B and Lile D2 usually doesn't.

Yet CPMs are still quite hard to sharpen...

Gaston
Click to expand...
This is blatant misinformation. You give bladeforums a bad name and are doing this community harm.

Anyone who reads this please, be aware this guy is DEAD WRONG.

@Dan Keffeler , @Big Chris , @Sal Glesser , @Nathan the Machinist and MANY more all know far more about cpm steels than Gaston444 and use them in their knives.
 
I’ve never had any issues with s30v chipping, rolling, or doing anything other than what it’s supposed to do. Don’t have much experience with s35vn, but I’ve heard good things from people who have. Sharpening isn’t as easy as 1084 for example, but even on standard lansky stones it sharpened easily enough by my standards.

Some people claim s30v is chippy. This hasn’t been my experience.
 
S30v is easy to sharpen even on an inexpensive diamond stone. Absolutely cake. Use the right tool for the job (diamonds, in this case), you never have an issue.
 
They have both worked just fine for me, but I just use my knives and sharpen them as needed. I suppose that won't unlock any of the hidden mysteries of the knife steel universe, but I am not a very mystical kind of knife user.
 
Even S90V is easily sharpened on ceramic rods. Same with S30V and S35V. I do it nearly everyday. No problem whatsoever. Of course I don't allow them to become butter knife dull and I strop on leather in between too, so I've found most any steel easy to maintain, as long as you touch up instead of trying to bring back a long neglected edge.
 
jill jackson said:
Even S90V is easily sharpened on ceramic rods.
Click to expand...

Agree with your main point; Sharpmaker really excels at that mode of simply maintaining an already well defined edge.

Have you ever had to rework/reprofile the edge bevel itself on one of these super hard steels like S90v that you mention? If so, what did you use for that? I know from painful experience, Sharpmaker is a great handy tool, but also REALLY REALLY slow if trying to reprofile an edge. I even bought the SM diamond rods, didn't make a huge difference and I ended up regretting I spent the money.
 
I ve tried the diamond rods and the cbn rods on my Sharpmaker to sharpen very dull blades. I like the cbn rods more.
 
maximus83 said:
Agree with your main point; Sharpmaker really excels at that mode of simply maintaining an already well defined edge.

Have you ever had to rework/reprofile the edge bevel itself on one of these super hard steels like S90v that you mention? If so, what did you use for that? I know from painful experience, Sharpmaker is a great handy tool, but also REALLY REALLY slow if trying to reprofile an edge. I even bought the SM diamond rods, didn't make a huge difference and I ended up regretting I spent the money.
Click to expand...

No I don't reprofile anything. Like I said, I keep them sharp. The one time I did change the edge angle, it was on a Hinderer with S35V , that came less than sharp and it indeed took a long time on ceramic. But, it eventually did do the job.
 
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