Are the "teething problems" of S30V and S35VN gone?

Gents, if the talk is not going to be about the performance of S30V, it will be time to close the thread. Talk about exotic Sci Fi terms belongs elsewhere.
 
knarfeng said:
Gents, if the talk is not going to be about the performance of S30V, it will be time to close the thread. Talk about exotic Sci Fi terms belongs elsewhere.
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Thank you. You have been very lenient. I was hoping to sneak in a chuckle without an infraction. Sorry it turned into more.

Back to the topic of S3_V and this thread. It has brought to my attention past posts and articles I wasn't aware of and I have learned more today than I have all week; perhaps one of the top three or so days for me on BladeForums and that is saying quite a lot.

For instance for some stupidity on my part I was unaware how close 3V and 30V are. Wow that was eye opening. And the heat treating by The Master P. Wilson . . . I love reading that kind of stuff though I obviously wouldn't dream of trying all that myself.

Great thread !

I was going to ask when will we see a Para 2 in 3V but as I recall now I think that has been discussed and the Para was thought to be too small a knife for the range of 3V's capabilities.
Still . . . I might buy one.

PS: Thanks again ALL; I could and will spend a couple of nights following the links and catching up on all this.

PPS:
traveling rough
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just meant camping away from all the sharpening equipment left at home.
 
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I'm always looking to learn something new here too. This place has a lot to offer. Some good minds and centuries of experience available for anyone looking.

I have called for 3V folders a few times. It's difficult getting by the " 3V is tough but not wear resistant" thought many have. Maybe it is not that wear resistant compared to some steel but it still makes great knives.It is no slouch. At the edge where we do our cutting there is something to be said for steels that are balanced and provide good all around attributes. 3V is pretty well balanced as is Cruwear, PD#1 , 4V , M2 and M4, and a few others. They have the carbides to be wear resistant yet have pretty good edge stability for that much wear resistance. I enjoy steel from most all sides of the spectrum but find most of my every day carry right in the middle .

Joe
 
They should make 3v folders cause it is very wear resistant. And adds toughness. Sure you won't be batoning or chopping with a folder but that aspect will help with edge deflection, chipping etc. Similar to say m4 etc. The edges are much more stable. And while 3v isn't on the same level as say s90v for edge retention, it's around s35vn give or take depending on the HT for edge retention.
 
The Mastiff said:
I'm always looking to learn something new here too. This place has a lot to offer. Some good minds and centuries of experience available for anyone looking.

I have called for 3V folders a few times. It's difficult getting by the " 3V is tough but not wear resistant" thought many have. Maybe it is not that wear resistant compared to some steel but it still makes great knives.It is no slouch. At the edge where we do our cutting there is something to be said for steels that are balanced and provide good all around attributes. 3V is pretty well balanced as is Cruwear, PD#1 , 4V , M2 and M4, and a few others. They have the carbides to be wear resistant yet have pretty good edge stability for that much wear resistance. I enjoy steel from most all sides of the spectrum but find most of my every day carry right in the middle .

Joe
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I agree, it is hard getting peoples mindset past the "3V is a tough steel, so it's not good for folders and smaller blades". When really the inverse is true, it's ability to resist deflection also translates into the apex being able to resist damage as well. Like you mentioned it may not be the most abrasion resistant, but I love everything that it brings to the table.

Also for everyone who wanted a 3V Paramilitary 2, basically every Spyderco released in Cruwear is the answer. They are so close in properties you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in end use.
 
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3V is an excellent steel, but its main virtue is to be exceptionally tough, while maintaining decent resistance to wear. You could get more toughness with S7 or some of the other shock-resistant steels, but you'd lose a ton of wear resistance.

For small folders, almost any wear-resistant steel with decent toughness (S30V, M4, M390, S90V, S110V, etc.) is going to be better for the intended purpose of a folding knife than 3V. Small blades don't normally need super high toughness, unless they are abused -- and in that case, go for it.

I'd choose Vanadis 4E (4V) over 3V, just because it has a better balance between toughness and wear resistance. But normally, I like stainless steels for folding knives where water and such can get inside where it can't be cleaned without disassembling the knife. S30V and S35VN have that stainless protection, decent to good toughness and high wear resistance.

If stainless isn't needed, a super high-wear steel like K390, which is much like 10V for wear resistance, but considerably tougher, is hard to beat.
 
I'm very distrustful of S30V. When it first came out, I bought a couple of knives in it, and they wouldn't hold an edge. I didn't see any micro-chipping, but they just went dull very quickly. Much less edge holding than AUS 8A. Much less. I gave them all several re-sharpenings, and it didn't get any better. One was a Sebenza, I had it tested, it came out about 57 or 57.5 HRC. I had it professionally re-heat treated, and got it back at about 60 - 61. That helped, but it still wouldn't keep up with my D2 blades. I was so disgusted, I gave it away. That was about 10 or 12 years or so ago, IIRC. I swore I'd never buy that steel again.

A couple of years ago, I found a long-forgotten Buck 110 in S30V. I ignored my first inclination to throw it in the garbage and decided to try it. Surprise, surprise. This one holds an edge better than D2. To say I was shocked would be an understatement. Same sharpening protocol, but much better results.

I really think in the early days, S30V got a LOT of sketchy heat treatment. I considered it utter crap. Now, I can't say that anymore, it can be a good steel. But I've never had a bad edge holder in D2, S3V, etc., and my experience with S30V has been hit and miss, to say the least.

I still won't buy it based on my experience with it, but there can be some good ones out there.

PS - I'm holding on to the Buck!
 
That's why, IMO, it's better to judge a steel by the maker/knife manufacturer than by the steel's name. That same steel, but from different manufacturers with different heat treatments, can perform very differently.

Jim
 
I've never liked s30V or s35VN, I think there are much better materials out there in the same price range. Stuff like M390 and ELMAX are better than S30V or S35VN in pretty much every way. Tougher, better edge holding, better hardness range, you name it. While S30V/35VN are solid performers and are a big step up from something like 154CM, if you are going to go with a premium stainless, you might as well go all the way and use M390. Add in the historic chippiness of S30V and you can see why I will personally never touch the stuff.
 
sodak said:
I really think in the early days, S30V got a LOT of sketchy heat treatment. I considered it utter crap. Now, I can't say that anymore, it can be a good steel. But I've never had a bad edge holder in D2, S3V, etc., and my experience with S30V has been hit and miss, to say the least.

I still won't buy it based on my experience with it, but there can be some good ones out there.
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And from reading the links it sounds like S3_V are fairly straight forward to heat treat consistently.
any chance the one you had serious trouble with was past a reasonable sharpening angle . . . for me that means > 18 to 20 dps but I suppose I am thinking yours was 25 dps or some such.
 
My S35VN CRK Inkosi has been fantastic. I don't use it hard but every day use on boxes and food have been great. Touch up the edge on the sharpmaker once in a long while.
 
"The maker did this on purpose to make it easy to sharpen."

I know this is what was said by the maker but does leaving it less hard really make a vanadium stainless easier to sharpen? For me no it doesn't. In fact it makes it less and more likely to have burrs that are rubbery and a PITA compared to nice crisp hard steel. I know which I prefer to sharpen anyways. I see no reason to run S30V at rc 57 ever. That is an opinion not a fact though.

Joe
 
Wowbagger said:
And from reading the links it sounds like S3_V are fairly straight forward to heat treat consistently.
any chance the one you had serious trouble with was past a reasonable sharpening angle . . . for me that means > 18 to 20 dps but I suppose I am thinking yours was 25 dps or some such.
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I don't think so (it's been a while), I will usually thin an edge out if it's more than 15 dps. Some steels, such as D2, require that I use a microbevel depending upon how thin I go. I've taken D2 down too thin, and it will definitely chip in the 10 dps range without a microbevel - at least for me when working with wood. I've had good luck with CPM 3V so far also.
 
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