Are there too many good knife makers?

ptgdvc

ptgdvc

Joined
Feb 27, 2003
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As a collector of forged blades, I have always tried to improve my collection by acquiring higher quality examples from top tier makers. I also have made a point of taking a really hard look at JS test pieces to help identify new makers whose skill set warrants watching and have the potential to become top makers. The "problem" is, that the quality bar has been raised by so many new makers, it is increasingly difficult to identify the top prospects and there are way too many for my relatively modest budget to collect.

Are we suffering from a talent glut?

Thoughts?
 
Is it the chicken or the egg? My own personal feeling, from observing the secondary markets, is that the economic collapse has brought with it a reduction in the number of collectors. Before late 2008, when both the primary and secondary markets were booming, more makers were appearing. I think either the number of makers needs to reduce or the number of collectors needs to increase - giving the "system" a bit more parity.

Bottom line is I tend to agree, there are perhaps more makers than the market can support. Just personal observation, certainly nothing close to science or economics here.
 
Hey bubba, In a way you are right about the talent glut. However, we are not suffering from a good business skills glut. All things [talent] being equal go for the questions to learn about the makers business skills and that will let a collector know who will go forward and who will not. However you already know that being around the collecting block before.
As Bob just mentioned the economics has played a huge part in our current market. Good business skills will have a maker with some type of projection on how he plans on not only surviving but going forward.
Good observations and question.
 
I am no expert on this topic, but would like to share my thoughts.

There might be a knowledge/technology glut. Of course it takes a certain amount of talent to make an exceptional knife. But it is the access to the ways and means to do something that gives one the skills to allow talent to flourish. With the instantaneous spread of knife making know how and the advent of modern machinery, more people with a true passion for knife making can find themselves in a position to develop their talent more rapidly than ever. So, not only do those who might have been cutlers in the past take up the hammer, but also those who catch the fire just because they can.

Before I joined BF I didn't even think about knife makers. Now there are thousands of maker sites globally. I don't see this doing anything but increasing. It's a numbers game, the more stars you have, the more of them will really shine.

Thanks for reading.

P.S. There is no such thing as a knowledge/technology glut. It's just an explanation for the situation.
 
The maker talent pool has never been broader or deeper, IMO. As we discussed at Ashokan, there is a definite need to grow the collector base as well. There have always been more makers whose work I would like to collect than I coud afford. But now there are WAY more.

Roger
 
I also believe that there is, thanks to the internet, a possibility for new relatively unknown makers to sell, and build a following without the expense of traveling to shows, or having the lay out the capital for a web site, advertising etc.

My point of view is that of a "lurker". I watch makers, and view their knives over and over, but am not really a custom collector (because of lack of disposable funds).

This is due, in part, to the ability to sell on forums like this one (which requires a sufficient membership).

A maker from a small town, near no shows, need not travel across the country to get a following.

One maker that pops to my mind is Claudio, CAS knives. As a maker from Argentina, he is on my "watch" list. (not that I have the money to buy from him right now), but I have never been to a show, never met the man, and from across the world, I can see every knife he posts and, quite a few times, progress WIP's.

New makers can get instant feed back from other makers, and customers (who have extensive knowledge, and collect from the best).

Jared Oesser is another I am thinking about. He is a "hobbyist" (by that, I mean he is not supporting himself and family through knife making). He started making knives, and slip joints in particular, only a short time ago. But he has access to other slip joint makers, and customers online (he also has a professional knife maker locally who is a friend).

My point is that J. Oesser can ask a question here (about equipment, etc), and get a response from the best makers in the business. He is turning out fantastic fixed blades, and slip joints in a time frame that seems lightning fast!

I feel this has greatly sped up the learning curve for some aspects of knife making. (not the inherent skill, but the knowledge base).
 
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How many "knife maker" members are there in the ABS alone? 1200? The custom knife market is not that big. These days the FIXED BLADE portion of the custom market might be what? 30% of the entire market if we are VERY lucky? The forged fixed blade market is yet a smaller percentage of that. The collectors out there are pretty good about buying at least one one knife from a lot of up and coming makers, but they can't buy a number of them from everyone and there aren't enough of those cats to make a living by selling all of them one knife over a period of 10 years.;)
 
I want to add to this that most US collectors are barely or not aware of the work being done in Europe that for a lot of them should have the same appeal.
 
The "problem" is a perceived need to, apx., get "one of each" as compared to available funds. That is a "problem" totally within your power to "solve." It is not caused by the number of folks making quality knives.
 
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better too many good makers, than too many lousy ones!
 
erik markman said:
I want to add to this that most US collectors are barely or not aware of the work being done in Europe that for a lot of them should have the same appeal.
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Sorry, I disagree with that statement....kumbaya be damned.

Custom knifemaking has it's origins in the US....am talking about the mainstream here, not unfortunate pockets of genius like Nazi Germany with damascus. There are collectors in Europe, Russia, China and other countries that may look at Europe first...but most of the U.S. based collectors that I know are interested in US makers first and foremost, as it should be.

I personally embrace that approach, but even I have pieces from other countries....Japan(Ohta), South Africa(Brown) and would LOVE to own a Loerchner(Canada). I made the mistake of dealing with South American makers at one point and had both pieces require attention....which sucked.

Peter, I think that having many makers to choose from just means you have to be very discriminating about your purchase. None of us can have all of the good stuff. That is a good thing, spreads it around some, gives makers and collectors a potential for great work at good prices.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Yup, Peter, you bring up a valid point. That's a high-class problem. So many men, so little time. Wait, wut? ;)

Seriously, the bigger problem, let's face it, is not for collectors, but for makers. The wealth of information of procedures, and visibility of other's work online, has steeped the learning curve VERY quickly, and you have to be producing knives of remarkable fit and finish, just to be in the running.

I'm sure many veterans have had to dig in to keep up. And many have. Others stay flat, continuing what they've done. That may be a long slow demise.

This particular forum tends to larger fixed blades, and I wish I knew of all the new tactical makers who have laid their ground. That's dominant on other forums. I find them exciting. But...

Within the larger fixed blade arena, you have Knight, Andrews, Vandeventer, Bump, White, and a host of other MS's upping the ante every post. (I know I missed a bunch. Sorry.) Then come in the new JS's with the cleanest work imaginable. Even the non-ABS smiths: Casey, Branson, Craddock, even Serge, et al. Great stuff.

That said, it's a buyer's market. Savvy, curious, homework-conscious collectors are choosing well. Like you are, Peter.

Coop
 
There's too many knifemakers period for the size pool of collectors that support them.

The only thing that sorta keeps the supply & demand scales balanced is the fact
that so few knifemakers really depend on knifemaking for any great percentage of their livelihood.

As far as the abundance of skilled knifemakers, it's just like anything else, the larger the group the larger the pool of talent.

The CKCA booth is always in a prime location at shows so we are able get a pretty good idea
of whose coming and going as we talk with folks. It's alarming how many at attendees are either knifemakers or want
to be knifemakers.
 
Kohai999 said:
Sorry, I disagree with that statement....kumbaya be damned.

Custom knifemaking has it's origins in the US....am talking about the mainstream here, not unfortunate pockets of genius like Nazi Germany with damascus. There are collectors in Europe, Russia, China and other countries that may look at Europe first...but most of the U.S. based collectors that I know are interested in US makers first and foremost, as it should be.

I personally embrace that approach, but even I have pieces from other countries....Japan(Ohta), South Africa(Brown) and would LOVE to own a Loerchner(Canada). I made the mistake of dealing with South American makers at one point and had both pieces require attention....which sucked.

Peter, I think that having many makers to choose from just means you have to be very discriminating about your purchase. None of us can have all of the good stuff. That is a good thing, spreads it around some, gives makers and collectors a potential for great work at good prices.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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STeven, I agree to disagree. Custom knifemaking doesn't originate in the US but in Europe and Asia. Think about what the Europeans made in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th century in the Scandinavian countries, England, France and Germany and what about Japan and China at that time??!! Here is an example of a DAMASCUS blade made in around 1880 in Germany.

xlarge.jpg


Marcel
 
Marcel54 said:
STeven, I agree to disagree. Custom knifemaking doesn't originate in the US but in Europe and Asia. Think about what the Europeans made in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th century in the Scandinavian countries, England, France and Germany and what about Japan and China at that time??!! Marcel
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Yes, of course you are right Marcel, it took off like gangbusters....who ever heard of Moran or Loveless or the ABS or the Knifemakers Guild....obviously, the US lags behind the greatness of the rest of the world.....do you really want to compare, say....Solingen or Sheffield to US custom knifemakers?

Before you get all bent out of shape, I like you, you know that, I like MANY non-American knifemakers, but the globalization of commerce for me stops with knifemaking, and it always has....one of the reasons that I got into it is that American knifemakers were so ahead of the curve in the '80's that it was astounding, and if you look at output, the rest of the world is STILL trying to catch up.

If you don't get the point, than there is no point....and let me finish by stating that there are 5(five) makers listed in K2013 for the Netherlands, none for Scotland, none for Iceland(places I just visited) and roughly 30 for Alaska, one of the United States most remote and inhospitable locales.

Just like the Olympics, USA kicks ass in knifemaking....end of story....no guts, no glory.

Unless it is absolutely required, I'll bow out of this one, as I fear the usual suspects will chime in with the usual kumbaya BS and that will raise my hackles and no good will come of it...I'm completely inflexible on this subject, and leave you all to it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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There will always be more knife makers than collectors. After all, its a luxury item so the percentage of people who are in a position to spend serious money on such a thing must be quite small. However, you don't have to be wealthy to start making knives (although knife makers would probably disagree :D). The other relatively new problem is the law. Markets that were potentially lively like Britain and Australia and even Germany are today strangled by anti-knife laws, especially when it comes to tac folders. You can't import one hand openers into Aussie or Germany any more. Those are two major first world countries with lots of disposable income. Not sure what the Japanese situation is, legally speaking. On the other side of the coin, it seems Russia has come along significantly but the other major growth point - China - is still lagging somewhat when it comes to knife collecting.
 
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Kohai999 said:
Yes, of course you are right Marcel, it took off like gangbusters....who ever heard of Moran or Loveless or the ABS or the Knifemakers Guild....obviously, the US lags behind the greatness of the rest of the world.....do you really want to compare, say....Solingen or Sheffield to US custom knifemakers?

Before you get all bent out of shape, I like you, you know that, I like MANY non-American knifemakers, but the globalization of commerce for me stops with knifemaking, and it always has....one of the reasons that I got into it is that American knifemakers were so ahead of the curve in the '80's that it was astounding, and if you look at output, the rest of the world is STILL trying to catch up.

If you don't get the point, than there is no point....and let me finish by stating that there are 5(five) makers listed in K2013 for the Netherlands, none for Scotland, none for Iceland(places I just visited) and roughly 30 for Alaska, one of the United States most remote and inhospitable locales.

Just like the Olympics, USA kicks ass in knifemaking....end of story....no guts, no glory.

Unless it is absolutely required, I'll bow out of this one, as I fear the usual suspects will chime in with the usual kumbaya BS and that will raise my hackles and no good will come of it...I'm completely inflexible on this subject, and leave you all to it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

STeven, I love you man and as you I'm not really of the "Kumbaya species". I love a good debate, but I agree with you that for this thread it's best that we end it here and if need be we take this discussion off line.

Marcel
Marcel
 
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