Are there too many good knife makers?

Before the internet you had to go to a show to see knives and learn who the best makers or up and coming makers were. You would snail mail them a request for a catalog or pictures of their work.
Today they are all almost a click away and you can comparison shop, trade and sell from the comfort of your home. There were a lot of good makers before the internet, they were just harder to find.
 
jdm61 said:
How many "knife maker" members are there in the ABS alone? 1200? The custom knife market is not that big. These days the FIXED BLADE portion of the custom market might be what? 30% of the entire market if we are VERY lucky? The forged fixed blade market is yet a smaller percentage of that. The collectors out there are pretty good about buying at least one one knife from a lot of up and coming makers, but they can't buy a number of them from everyone and there aren't enough of those cats to make a living by selling all of them one knife over a period of 10 years.;)
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Joe,
Just how do you know the abs has 1200 members? There site only shows just over 200
 
I believe that with the current number of quality knife makers and collectors that the average maker is going to have a difficult time with sales, especially if you are depending on your knife sales for the bulk of your income.

Probably over three fourths of the presentations of my knives that I give to prospective customers are to people who have never been exposed to a custom knife. If I had to relie on the current collector base for my livelihood then making a good living would be a lot more difficult. Spontaneous sales aren't the norm from these people but the percentage of sales to those who visit my shop for a second or third time is quite good.

If the existing market isn't adequate then you have to find ways of reaching a new one;).

Gary
 
Cliff, they currently have 113 Master Smiths and 163 Journeyman Smiths listed on their website. Thats 276 that have passed one or more of the tests. They don't show the AS members and haven't listed the total membership in the Knives annual for a number of years likely because they would use too much space for one group. I got the 1200 number from extrapolating from the almost 1100 that head a couple of years back.
Cliff Parker said:
Joe,
Just how do you know the abs has 1200 members? There site only shows just over 200
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Buffalohump said:
There will always be more knife makers than collectors. After all, its a luxury item so the percentage of people who are in a position to spend serious money on such a thing must be quite small. However, you don't have to be wealthy to start making knives (although knife makers would probably disagree :D). The other relatively new problem is the law. Markets that were potentially lively like Britain and Australia and even Germany are today strangled by anti-knife laws, especially when it comes to tac folders. You can't import one hand openers into Aussie or Germany any more. Those are two major first world countries with lots of disposable income. Not sure what the Japanese situation is, legally speaking. On the other side of the coin, it seems Russia has come along significantly but the other major growth point - China - is still lagging somewhat when it comes to knife collecting.
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?????
 
I also don't feel there are to many good makers and it is because of them is the reason the number keeps growing.
As far as the number of listed makers on the abs site. As a collector looking for good makers going to that site do you not think he is loosing out because they are only listing such a small percentage of there makers.
As a maker being a member of the abs do you fell it's right that your name and contact info. is not listed ? I mean you are a paying member. Believe this there are some real good makers in the abs that are not master or journeyman smiths and have no desire to be but like to try to support the industry because it is a direction they would like to pursue in some way
 
Don Hanson III said:
I don't think there is "too many" good makers.

Collectors should be in hog heaven right now. :D
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I agree Don, it's a great time for the individual collector if he/she has the $$$ and time to spend buying and commissioning knives.
I started a thread here a while back regarding this being a golden age for custom knives, some agreed, some didn't.

Looking "Big Picture", though it may not be such a good time for collectors as a whole. If new knifemakers keep coming onto the scene at a disproportionate rate to new collectors and negatively impacting supply and demand the custom knife community may change as we know it. Knifemakers can only flourish and knife shows can only survive as long as there's ample collectors to buy knives.

Excellent thread Peter. It's good to see thought provoking and provocative threads popping up on this forum again :thumbup:
 
Don nailed it, the better quality and more availability is a plus for the consumer no matter what the product is. Are there to many makers? Honestly, I think anyone in business would like to see less competition when it comes to producing similar products, BUT, more makers can also help generate more business by spreading the knowledge( advertising) that peaks interest in the profession to those that are unfamiliar with that profession. I still meet and talk to people weekly that have little knowledge of the knifemaking world and are amazed that such a profession even exists. We need to figure out ways to generate more comsumers and collectors.

Bill
 
I still have to say that the interest that the custom knife community has generated as far as attracting new makers out strips the new collector interest. Maybe this is an overly simplistic example, but basic Economics 101 says that if the same basic 1084 and maple burl fighter with no JS or MS marking that I bought from Joe Flournoy in 91-92 for $375 goes for about the same money in 2012, the supply has gone up drastically without a corresponding increase in demand.
 
Don Hanson III said:
I don't think there is "too many" good makers.

Collectors should be in hog heaven right now. :D
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You are correct, Don. There are hundreds more makers that the collectors COULD buy from, but won't because that would not be a good investment. ;-)
 
There may not be enough collectors. But there certainly are enough "buyers".

In my experience, the majority of people, buying the majority of the knives; intend on using them. The high end of customs knives, really is but a small portion of all the custom knives being bought and sold on a daily basis.

In my opinion, if you are not selling enough knives; It is not necessarily the markets fault, it is the marketers(knifemakers) fault.
Meaning, as a maker I need to be constantly changing and adjusting my products and marketing techniques to keep up with the market as a whole.
That may mean being more versatile in the knives I am making. And not getting stuck on one genre.
It also means I need to be constantly growing and improving the quality and fit/finish of my work. Which makes it a better value for the collector or user.

I plan on doing this a very long time. If I don't move with the market I will get left behind!
 
B . Buxton said:
Don nailed it, the better quality and more availability is a plus for the consumer no matter what the product is. Are there to many makers? Honestly, I think anyone in business would like to see less competition when it comes to producing similar products, BUT, more makers can also help generate more business by spreading the knowledge( advertising) that peaks interest in the profession to those that are unfamiliar with that profession. I still meet and talk to people weekly that have little knowledge of the knifemaking world and are amazed that such a profession even exists. We need to figure out ways to generate more comsumers and collectors.

Bill
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So true Bill! A collector of ABS knives is very much in a unique niche. Very few of us.
Great thread Peter! :thumbup:
 
knife makers ?

how many knife makers are part time / hobby makers, compared to full time makers ?

US knife market is very competitive, because there are many more full time makers than in Europe, this has a effect on pricing

so yes, US is a buying market
are there too many good ones... i hope so, there is little market for bad knifes
 
As some have pointed out, as a community we really need to focus on increased marketing. There's a lot of people out there, with a lot of disposable income, that are just looking for things to throw their money at...and they have never even heard of custom knives.

The industry tends to focus on itself....makers market their goods on knife forums, buy paid ads in knife magazines, etc. How often do you see ads for custom knives in non knife publications? This makes sense for makers since they know people that buy knife mags are interested in knives...but it doesn't help expand the industry's customer base. Those making kitchen knives, desk knives, etc could market in architectural magazines. People making gentleman folders could market in upscale fashion mags. Etc.

Throw words like Ferarri, Louis Vuitton, Rolex, in a conversation and your average person knows what you are talking about. Throw the best names in the knife industry into a conversation with the average person and they will have no clue. That needs to change. I doubt knifemakers will ever achieve the same brand recognition as the afore mentioned brands, but every little bit helps.

Buzz about the industry needs to be created. This might also help us keep our knife rights from being taken away if the industry had a larger fan base.
 
There are a lot of people that make knives. I personally know about half a dozen, but just because there's a lot of them doesn't mean all of them are good and worth collecting. Just like in sports, most makers will be Journeymen. They will have adequate skill, but won't be anything special. Then you have the champions, the guys that have an amazing amount of skill and are sought after.

With so much supply and so little demand, it really is a buyers market. The more options you have, the better. Also if only a few people made custom knives, there would be fewer of them on the market and the price would sky rocket. - Economics 101
 
BenR.T. said:
There may not be enough collectors. But there certainly are enough "buyers".

In my experience, the majority of people, buying the majority of the knives; intend on using them. The high end of customs knives, really is but a small portion of all the custom knives being bought and sold on a daily basis.

In my opinion, if you are not selling enough knives; It is not necessarily the markets fault, it is the marketers(knifemakers) fault.
Meaning, as a maker I need to be constantly changing and adjusting my products and marketing techniques to keep up with the market as a whole.
That may mean being more versatile in the knives I am making. And not getting stuck on one genre.
It also means I need to be constantly growing and improving the quality and fit/finish of my work. Which makes it a better value for the collector or user.

I plan on doing this a very long time. If I don't move with the market I will get left behind!
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There are some great nuggets of truth in your statements, and some assumptions...

I own about five customs I use, but I own about 60. If my intention was to simply purchase knives with the intent to use them, my needs were fulfilled about 8 years ago. I submit the MAJORITY of knives that come MY way are completely usable, but with an intention for collection ownership, with an eye open for future sale. So who's majority is correct?

Ben, you are probably correct in that your wonderful 'entry level' customs are getting usage and you sell so many. From what I've admired you are making knives well under $400, right? Cool.

You WILL find that once your user pool has met their needs, you will be providing knives to them which are completely useful, and probably have even more work. The savvy collector will acquire these and reconsider losing the value 50% upon opening that cardboard box (Of which he has six other knives well-suited to the task.)

Just a little counterpoint to chew on. :D

Coop
 
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