Are U.S. Knives Really Better?

[thombrogan]

Gotcha, Orca! Also got your joke, that's why I said the knives from Uranus weren't s****, just crappier....

Hardheart,

My bad. I always gloss over the self-defense stuff.

 

[sdt11670]

IMOP Spyderco makes the best production knives on the market today.

Some people love spyderco's and give cs a bad rap when many of them are made by the same makers using the same steel and not just these two brands but several others. As far as imports go it's the fault of the U.S. importer that is lining it's pocket with profit! Any one can lease a factory and install the equipment to make knives and stick a now hiring sign up! Sure the overseer's know how to make good knives but they are made in mass quantity by factory workers not cutlers and they are not all going to be the same quality as far as heat treatment and tempering are concerned and quality of the steel mixture... i dont care how good the fit and finish is! Now i hate most asian imports but have pounds of a+ japanese blades and a few great taiwan blades as well and i just shelled out a hundred bucks for a chinese knife! it hasnt arrived yet but i am relying on the importers reputation and the steel it's crafted from to be a decent blade.

 

[Will Power]

One thing is certain for me. American knives offer the greatest choice and undeniable tradition/authenticity.

With such a vast range, some are bound to be mediocre, others such as CASE, Bark River,Spyderco offer consistently high quality, innovation and heritage.

Two non US knives I own which I am particularly keen on are some Mcusta folders from Japan-exceptional build-quality and a Paul Chen Sheffield folder from China, also excellent quality and feel. Fällkniven (Japan/Sweden) are also high up in the quality strata.

I like knives from around the world but America remains a deserved colossus on the cutlery stage.

 

[Confederate]

I didn't mean to disparage Benchmade, but every knife I've seen in local stores, including a large sporting good store, have been very well made and very dependable; however, I have never seen one that looked like it was a heavy duty or combat knife. Perhaps they have some super rugged models I'm not familiar with, but the overall line is not geared toward that type of use (though Spydercos are).

Benchmade use of good premium steels actually works against its overall strength. Yes, axis locks are the most secure and strongest available, but it's only one component among many. Premium steels, for example, are not generally as strong and as pliant as tougher steels. If you start hammering premium blades into trees or logs and subject them to rigorous torquing, they're not likely to fare well.

Spyderco also uses premium steels, but they're blade configurations are designed to compliment them. They're blade sizes tend to be dimenutive and pointy, not overly suited for anything but cutting. No one would use them for batoning or prying.

Cold Steel, CRKT, Boker and Kershaw all concentrated on more rugged knives with tough steels, larger blades and robust frames and locks. Gerber burned out, unfortunately, but all knife companies have turned to overseas production to remain competitive. Recently, I bought two CRKT knives, one made in Tiawan and the other in the U.S. The blade's teflon finish and the overall workmanship of the knife was significantly superior on the Tiawan version. The blade of the U.S. model appeared to have a better grind, but someone had blotched it with a thumb print on one side and a fingerprint on the other (and it wasn't a second). I remember the same sort of thing happened when Colt Firearms began using United Auto Workers to assemble its pistols. As one gun mag put it: "The same clowns who are screwing up your cars are now able to screw up your firearms." And it was true. Colt's CQ went to hell.

I don't know if most handguns are still produced here, but the increase in prices leads me to think that they are. I would sure hate to have a gun made in China. Heat treat for guns is even more crucial than knives..

 

[hardheart]

I try to gloss over it as well, Thom.

Confederate, I can see the generalizations you're trying to make. Problem is, they do not work. at all. Benchmade & Spyderco use S30V. Is it premium or tough? I don't know. I do know BM uses it in the Rukus, Skirmish, Dejavoo, Ritter Griptilian, Opportunist. Spyderco uses it in the Chinook, Manix, Military, Native, P'Kal, T Mag, UK penknife, Caly 3. Which ones are made for batoning, which ones are diminutive and pointy? Which ones are full flat ground, which ones are saber ground, which ones are tough, which ones are not. What about the S30V Leek. Or the ZDP189 Leek. Or the ZDP189 Cyclone. Or the ZDP189 Endura. Is it as dainty as the Caly Jr, Jess Horn, Stretch II?

I don't want to get into how robust the linerlocks are on CRKTs and Kershaws. I'll just say that I completely, totally, and utterly disagree with that opinion.

Anyway, to the original point of the thread, I don't think the imaginary lines surrounding one piece of land from another have a hell of a lot to do with the ability of people living there to produce good cutlery.

 

[knarfeng]

I don't know if most handguns are still produced here, but the increase in prices leads me to think that they are. I would sure hate to have a gun made in China. Heat treat for guns is even more crucial than knives..[/quote]

Oh PLEASE. You do not know what you are talking about. The Chinese have been making aircraft parts for years. Critical heat treat? Yeah, I think they can do that.

 

[thombrogan]

A lot of folks who own Chinese-made AKM's are hap-hap-happy with 'em, but they're not knives.

 

[405dave]

USA has Busse. Enough said. LOL

 

[Shaman]

I didn't mean to disparage Benchmade, but every knife I've seen in local stores, including a large sporting good store, have been very well made and very dependable; however, I have never seen one that looked like it was a heavy duty or combat knife.

My 722SBT (serrated, black, tanto) 'looks' pretty heavy duty and I am pretty sure it could be used to kill someone.

 

[thombrogan]

So can a pencil or something as small as an ebola microbe.

Can a 722SBT (serrated, Black Teflon) hack and pry through wood, plastic, and thin, soft metal without falling apart? That's more demanding than cutting soft tissue (many of us here are members of the self-inflicted booboo club and more will join) and something your wonderful pocketknife can do very well.

 

[Shaman]

The discussion was US knives vs other Country productions.
You commented concerning BM being perhaps more cheaply made than some others, to which you indicated Spyderco.

Can a 722SBT (serrated, Black Teflon) hack and pry through wood, plastic, and thin, soft metal without falling apart?

I'm pretty confident that it will hold up under those conditions as well as just about every other non-custom folder, and probably better than most.

If I was really concerned about those things I would be carrying a FB anyway.

 

[thombrogan]

I'll go one further than you and state that I believe your 722SBT will withstand more punishment than a lot of custom folding knives, even ones sold as hard use knives.

Now where am I saying Benchmade was more cheaply made? I dismissed the endorsements hardheart mentioned because they don't seem valid for utility uses of pocketknives (and in light of what a small piece of lead can do, for uses as well). Alton Brown likes the same paring knives I like, but his approval is not what makes them so good (btw, your 722SBT could chop up those paring knives and still keep cutting).

 

[Confederate]

If a US company outsources their products to other countries, there are no real issues as long as there is oversight. In the same context, a US factory with lousy quality control can't be trusted to produce anything decent. In the 80s, I saw numerous Smith & Wesson revolvers that were made with soft parts like cylinder hands, barrels and such.

Micro-Tech knives are made in China, and though they're not top tier knives, I've heard that the factory workers take pride in their products. Other knives made for Maxam and Frost Cutlery are trash, but they suit some peoples' needs.

As I posted earlier, the CRKT knives I've seen coming out of China are actually better than their US cousins.

The Chinese business ethics are not something that impress me. The large numbers of tainted clothing, tainted food and other dangerous products are inexcusable. And all too often when caught, they fail to show the appropriate remorse.

 

[Nutbuster]

you do realize that Benchmade automatics are issue items to the US military and have national stock numbers.

I'd know - I was given one and I've put it through some rounds, especially while being a mechanic. Perhaps some Benchmade models aren't meant to be sturdy, but I do know they make some pretty tough knives.

Not sure what model I was given (it's sort of related to the ones pictured above). That knife is the only experience I've had with a Benchmade though and I've never looked anything up on knives really till I hit this forum.

 

[Projek]

Remember, the Japanese were making the best knives in the world, when the rest of the world was pretty much throwing rocks at each other!

NO actually it was the Chinese that taguht the Japanese how to make edged weapons. The term Tanto literally means Blade of Tang Dynasty. Which was the time when Japanese were sending students to study in China 1500 years ago.

 

[Projek]

However every knife I own are Made in USA, after all this is where true tactical folders started.

 

[Projek]

Quality cannot be controlled by individual countries, but it can be limited, severely, by the lack of expertise. That and the fact that workers are working for slave's wages.

Many of the Chinese still harbor a hatred of the US and they're more likely to let things slide, depending who they are.


You really need to get out of your little town once in a while. Its a much bigger world out there than just bunch of fat back eating truck drivers who think they know everything.

This is a fourm about knives and people who have passions about knives, why drag politics into this?

 

[markv]

I'm putting my foot down and only buying knives made on Earth! Other planets might have similar craftsmanship and lower prices, but there's no way I'll ever use a knife that came from Uranus!

That statement about Japanese knives being made before other cultures were using steel knives is a strong one. Any facts to back it up? This is the same Japan where people were using sand for a source of iron when folks in England, Germany, and Sweden were mining ore, right?

the Finns and Swedes picked up pieces of ore from bogs and rivers and from off the ground
go to the Fiskars site for a great overview - history of steel making in the north countries.
sword makers in Japan and the ancient orient in general have a history
of great steel making also. all quality knives i've purchased from China are just that.

knife quality has nothing to do with country of origin. wherever quality materials and quality assurance is maintained - this is where you will find the good stuff
except in the case of Uranus, their knives are smelly.

 

[markv]

well said



You really need to get out of your little town once in a while. Its a much bigger world out there than just bunch of fat back eating truck drivers who think they know everything.
don't be offended . sometimes good medicine tastes bad.

 

[Razorsharp244]

I believe that we are missing a very crucial point in this discussion. What I see happening in the knife industry is the same as with clothes. Brand after brand decided to outsource their production until the clothes are almost exclusively made by Chinese (and other) people. Europe and the US designs but China produces. Pretty soon they the Chinese will probably put up their own brand, made in the same factory, with the same materials and the same F&F but without the extra costs of a western brand. We teach them production, design and marketing. What took "old world" companies decades to perfect is being perfected in half a decade in China because we willingly teach them.

Will it in the long run be possible to maintain a quality/pricing difference between US/European made and China made? Maybe, but I'm not so sure. I believe western companies will have a tough 5-10 years now until Chinese costs/saleries comes up to a higher level.

And btw, I cant spot the difference between a high quality chinese made and a high quality european/US made knife. Unfortunatly. Of course there is more "cheap shit" made there but the high-end chinese compares in F&F to most high end knives in the world.

For us consumers this will of course mean a huge supply of quality knives from all over the world. And that is a good thing.