Are we ruining the secondary market?

One big thing I forgot to address, and that is how are we affecting the secondary market. Again, Don Hanson's quoted comment in my thread above, at the end, is all there is to say about it.

This, as with any other kind of market, is a free market. We all do our thing, and nothing is going to change that. We impact the secondary market, as collectors, because we have the primary impact on the market, more than any other constituency. But to try to change how a free market system works, never happen. But knowing how we as a component in it function to affect it, that's what is making this thread so damn interesting, Kevin!! Thanks for starting it.
 
Kevin Jones said:
I strongly disagree Tai as I love custom knives as a collector, however realize I can profit thus help improve my collection as an investor.

Some collectors get their enjoyment "in the hunt" and don't keep knives very long. To each their own.
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Then I'd put you more in the "collector/investor" category... nothing wrong with that. :)
 
Tai Goo said:
I don’t think that it’s really that much different than anything else,… especially other “collectables”. It’s governed to a large extent by “cycles” and trends.

However, if you want to make money in the secondary market you have to be knowledgeable enough to “buy low and sell high”. What this means is recognizing “up and comers” before their prices become over inflated, to recognize established makers who consider the secondary market and leave room for resale, and to recognize new trends before they become full blown.
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I could not agree more with this.
 
However, if you want to make money in the secondary market you have to be knowledgeable enough to “buy low and sell high”. What this means is recognizing “up and comers” before their prices become over inflated, to recognize established makers who consider the secondary market and leave room for resale, and to recognize new trends before they become full blown.
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Tai you're right and for me that's the fun (and time consuming) part of it that I like so much. :thumbup:;)

Marcel
 
Again, some people collect without any regard to the bucks, some want to break even and some of us want to combine that love we have for both collecting and investing
 
betzner said:
I agree 100% with Wolfeknives and his comparison to the art market. The similarities are amazing, probably because so many collectors are attracted for the art of the knife, the look of the knife - just as art collectors are attracted by the art piece.

I collect knives because I love them. But I learned early on that what I initially started collecting probably would have no value upon sale. I suppose at that point I had 25 knives. It was then I decided to start taking a hard look at "name" makers' knives, the more expensive ones which I considered crazy to collect - because of expense - and after all, "It's only a knife" (but stunning, nonetheless). Well, I went in whole hog AFTER DOING MY RESEARCH. And to my delight, when I started selling off those first 25 knives, I made a profit on all but one. They were lower end, but had some art in them, and I was into them "good".

Three criteria are essential for me. First, I must love the knife. Secondly, I want to be able to sell it tomorrow for what I paid for it today. Lastly, the knife should have very good potential for appreciation. Sometimes #1 controls a bit too much, but that sure can't be a bad thing. Those are the knives I call "keepers".

But the bottom line for the secondary market boils down to exactly what Don Hanson said: "Some collect knives for enjoyment, some for investment and some do both. It's all good".
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Bob, I believe you left out on important aspect; THE MAKER.

You predominately collector one maker (please correct me if I'm wrong). D Holder, whose knives are among the most sought after on the secondary market. Even though he makes quite a few knives, they go like hotcakes at very good prices.
 
Marcel54 said:
Tai you're right and for me that's the fun (and time consuming) part of it that I like so much. :thumbup:;)

Marcel
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I also think that taking "risks" is part of the fun, as a maker and one who has dabbled in collecting.

The greater the risk, the greater the possible gain... or loss.

However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to play it safe. :)
 
This is a good thread Kevin and one of the reasons this forum is so interesting :thumbup:

Kevin, I feel that the makers who are on top of their game are doing well in the after market and are making better knives with each one they finish. You are right though, there is a curve as one gets older.

I'm glad I'm not caught in one of those after market bubbles!

I do help collectors sell knives that I've made but I don't post them on my site. I usually send out a notice that one's available and or make a few calls on their behalf. It usually works well for all involved.

The 'thinking too much' was not directed just to you. I think a lot of folks think too much and don't use their intuition. Right Tai? :D I'm not the serious type, if it ain't fun, I wont do it. :)

I do feel that collectors need to use their brain when laying down big bucks for knives.

I have been around customs since 81 and it's been steadily growing. It is a pretty good time for custom knives right now :)

Good post, Wolf and betzner.
 
Tai Goo said:
I don’t think that it’s really that much different than anything else,… especially other “collectables”. It’s governed to a large extent by “cycles” and trends.

However, if you want to make money in the secondary market you have to be knowledgeable enough to “buy low and sell high”. What this means is recognizing “up and comers” before their prices become over inflated, to recognize established makers who consider the secondary market and leave room for resale, and to recognize new trends before they become full blown.
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Tis is good, Tai :thumbup:
 
Don Hanson III said:
This is a good thread Kevin and one of the reasons this forum is so interesting :thumbup:

Kevin, I feel that the makers who are on top of their game are doing well in the after market and are making better knives with each one they finish. You are right though, there is a curve as one gets older.

Yep, some makers are doing very well. :thumbup:

I'm glad I'm not caught in one of those after market bubbles!

I do help collectors sell knives that I've made but I don't post them on my site. I usually send out a notice that one's available and or make a few calls on their behalf. It usually works well for all involved.

Sorry, I get your notices (thanks), just thought I had seen some collector's knives posted there. Obviously mistaken. :foot: :o

The 'thinking too much' was not directed just to you. I think a lot of folks think too much and don't use their intuition. Right Tai? :D I'm not the serious type, if it ain't fun, I wont do it. :)

No problem Don, as I didn't take it as directed at me.

STeven and I were just talking the other day about how serious this game can be considering the $$$ some have invested.

I come from classic car collecting which will make you think and be very serious as one doesn't get a chance to make too many unwise purchases if you know what you mean. One thing that many collectible areas have to worry about that we haven't (yet) is counterfeits.

I do feel that collectors need to use their brain when laying down big bucks for knives.

I have been around customs since 81 and it's been steadily growing. It is a pretty good time for custom knives right now :)

Again I agree, but things can always improve and move forward. The CKCA will help in moving the customs industry forward. See us at the Blade Show. :thumbup:

Good post, Wolf and betzner.
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Kevin Jones said:
Bob, I believe you left out on important aspect; THE MAKER.

You predominately collector one maker (please correct me if I'm wrong). D Holder, whose knives are among the most sought after on the secondary market. Even though he makes quite a few knives, they go like hotcakes at very good prices.
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Kevin, I actually collect other knives besides D'Holders. I have a reasonable Curt Erickson collection in and of itself. Perhaps 30% of my knives are various other makers, too, though all are well known names.

When it comes to the maker, one cannot have a secondary market without there being something that is bought and sold. The maker is a given, being certainly as essential as the collector for the existence of the secondary market. It is, however, more driven by the collector than the maker.
 
Thank God for knifemakers, without whom we would not have found this consuming endeavor.
 
I think we might also need to recognize a difference between, “long term” and “short term” collecting/investing...

“Short term” could mean a turn around in 5 years or less, and long term over 5 years,… or some such breakdown as this.
 
Historically speaking (in the long run), I think there is one cold hard fact to all this,… Society as a whole recognizes and tries to preserve that which is “of value“. :)
 
betzner said:
Kevin, I actually collect other knives besides D'Holders. I have a reasonable Curt Erickson collection in and of itself. Perhaps 30% of my knives are various other makers, too, though all are well known names.

When it comes to the maker, one cannot have a secondary market without there being something that is bought and sold. The maker is a given, being certainly as essential as the collector for the existence of the secondary market. It is, however, more driven by the collector than the maker.
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Yes, Bob I know you have very nice knives by other well known makers, but that leaves 70% as predominately D' Holder.

I didn't mean that as a negative, as I support working with fewer makers as opposed to a lot though each collector has his/her own philosophy.
 
betzner said:
It is, however, more driven by the collector than the maker.
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If this is true then, it is more the collectors fault when things don't go so well in the secondary market.

...which is basically my answer to the original question.
 
Do we collectors have the ability to at least impact secondary market pricing if not control it by what we ask for or accept for our knives?

Can a collector buy what he/she likes yet still avoid losing upon sale of such?

Kevin,

We do everytime a sale takes place. Seriously, you seem to have an unnatural fixation on controling prices. A knife is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. The owner may establish any price/valuation he chooses, if he has no serious desire or need to sell it. He may however end up owning it forever.

On the second question, I certainly hope and think so! :thumbup:

P
 
I don't think anyone is ever to blame if the secondary market has it's lapses. It's very much an economic thing and has nothing to do with collectors or makers. In fact, I doubt makers or collectors could "harm" or "help" the secondary market if they tried to do so. It is economics-driven, at this point, with the number of collectors and makers out there growing all the time.
 
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