Are we too pre-occupied with full tang blades?

12Bravo said:
I hate seeing good blades break
SSPX0306.jpg


I'd like to see a on piece version of the trusty Kabar design.
SSPX0309.jpg
Click to expand...

that's a good candidate for a folder. Drill a hole in the ricasso and slap it between two slabs of micarta.
 
Probably a defect during manufacture. I have used way to many Kabars to think that this was not just a freak deal. Anything mechanical made by humans can break.
 
there's the possibility, and this is the only problem I ever have considering hidden tangs- that the shoulder formed a flex point during batoning or whacking, and it got stressed over time. Not saying it is super likely, but it is very possible.

I try very hard to maintain a very broad shoulder on hidden tang blade, with a rapid narrowing to a traditional stick profile over an inch or two. Once you are past that flex zone, the wood and epoxy support is plenty.
 
I think I have a little more faith in full tang knives because I can see what's there. With stick tangs, you have to wonder how long/wide/thick the tang is, and if it's shaped properly to avoid a stress area near the blade transition.



Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
I'm not surprised of that KA-BAR.
Mine has bended downwards at the blade-tang junction when I was batonning some wood.The KA-BAR is a bad quality knife IMHO - I don't know if its tang is even heat treated - it's very soft.The blade's extremely soft as well.
A good stick tang knife will never fail like that !
 
Lots of good insight in this thread. I've owned/used/abused & broken a lot of blades. One of my favorite knives growing up was a Camillus Marine Corps Combat Knife, a Ka-bar variant. I broke/bent several throwing them. Love the knives, just not made for that.

The majority of what I have now are Busse, Swamp Rat, & Scrapyard with one Bark River and several more BR's on my wish list. The BR's have made me take a second look at hidden tang knives.

GregB
BaconBeavers
 
I agree with Ray on this topic. Hidden tangs are alot more work then full tang especially if you do it by hand. I've made a few but have stopped doing them because they are a pain to work on. A well made hidden tang knife can be just as strong as a full tang.
Scott
 
Breakage on hidden tang knives is not always the fault of the knife.

Mass produced knives (like the Ka-bar) can often be over-stressed by pushing down on the handle while batoning the tip,

In this scenario, the wood becomes a fulcrum and magnifies the force traveling from the tip to the tang.

Stress rises in the area where the blade is cut down entering the tang, and the blade snaps at that location.

More careful batoning (i.e., letting the tip be pushed through the wood without a lot of pressure on the handle), or a more robust blade tang junction (i.e., rounded junction points and a wider tang), could have made a huge difference in that blades performance.



Give me a Bark River “Smoke Jumper” over the classic Ka-bar for a heavy use hidden tang knife anyday.
 
I second that Big Mike. I would rather pound on my Bark Rivers than my Kabars. Here are a couple I use:

Knives006.jpg


IMG_0787.jpg
 
This is one I beat on pretty hard. Made it after seeing Seraphim Falls. I chopped a pressure treated 2X10 in half, also scared the USP guy when he was making a delivery (long story :D)

Scott

bowie.jpg
 
A hidden tang will be good only if done well. IMHO, that Kabar doesn't look like it was done well. They could have left a lot more steel on that tang. Also, it doesn't look like the corners are rounded.
 
I have no problem with hidden tang knives as long as the corners are radiused. If they are left square, it can set up stress risers, as seen in that Kabar.
 
Gossman Knives said:
This is one I beat on pretty hard. Made it after seeing Seraphim Falls. I chopped a pressure treated 2X10 in half, also scared the USP guy when he was making a delivery (long story :D)

Scott
Click to expand...

You did that, too? One day I'm working on hand sanding the lanyard tubing on on of the spanish dirks- like an 11 inch blade, and the UPS man comes up behind me......
 
Hidden tang configuration is harder to build. I agree with it.
But to shape full-tang handle into nice rounded section is sometimes tricky, which is
among the things I pay great attention in making a knife.
I take care the handle to be shaped as if it is a single piece of material, and
not like two slabs composed of stainless and micarta having a sheet of steel in between.
For me, I can't say it's easy to build.
 
I think we are seeing more full tang knives because of the availability of high quality steels. You have to remember, a hundred years ago, high quality steel was a rare bird. When you had it, you didn't waste it. Forging allows the maker to user just enough steel to get the job done without having to waste a lot with filing or grinding. The hidden tang was born from a need to have a strong handle to knife junction utilizing a minimum of steel.

Now that high quality steels are readily available and relatively cheap, a lot of knife makers use stock removal to create knives. This results in a lot of wasted steel ending up as steel dust. Those who forge knives don't have to worry about availability so they typically utilize a full tang as well.

If you are going to be using a knife when it is very cold, I doubt you will be doing so (for long) without using gloves, so I don't know if that is a factor or not. However, I defer my knowledge in this area to those who actually operate in those environments!

Again, I think the availability of modern steels is the major factor behind full tangs versus stick tangs. Reading some historical literature on forging around the turn of the century into the early 1930's led me to my conclusion.
 
caine said:
WOW I have never seen a Ka-Bar break and I have seen some dues do crazy stuff with them.
Click to expand...

Seen kbars bend with little effort. The fact it snapped is not surprising.

An example of a blade many think they can count on without knowing they arent far from its destruction point.

Skam
 
How full tang actually is a "full Tang" knife like a Bravo 1? It has great chunks of the tang removed to lighten it doesn't it? I have no personal experience of the Bravo 1 and I am not knocking what many here feel is a great product, but from what I recall of the drawings when it was prototyped you could describe the tang as being almost just a frame around the outside edge of the handle shape with enough meat left in it to be able to provide areas for handle bolts and the thong tube to pass through.

If you actually measured the steel in the tang part of the knife it is probably the same or less amount of steel that there is in a full stick tang like a fallkniven. This whole discussion while really interesting is kind of like 2 guys arguing about whether Ferraris are better than Porches. Each is going to have his preference for reasons that mean something to him. The key thing is to ensure that the maker or manufacturer has done their job properly with no sharply angled blade shoulders and a good heat treat.

I make both full tang (with plenty of holes drilled in the tang to lighten them) and mortice tang knives. I like them both.

Just my 2 cents
Kevin
 
rwiggins said:
I think we are seeing more full tang knives because of the availability of high quality steels. You have to remember, a hundred years ago, high quality steel was a rare bird. When you had it, you didn't waste it. Forging allows the maker to user just enough steel to get the job done without having to waste a lot with filing or grinding. The hidden tang was born from a need to have a strong handle to knife junction utilizing a minimum of steel.

Now that high quality steels are readily available and relatively cheap, a lot of knife makers use stock removal to create knives. This results in a lot of wasted steel ending up as steel dust. Those who forge knives don't have to worry about availability so they typically utilize a full tang as well.
Click to expand...

The Ontario Old Hickory line of kitchen knives are basically the same types of knives used by pioneers, hunters, and traders in the early and mid 1800s.

The Green River Knives were relatively cheap to make and were mass-produced, so the full tang might have been chose since they were easier to make.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top