Are we too reluctant to leave bad feedback?

Feedback: +107 / =0 / -0
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Mar 2, 2003
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I've been thinking about this for awhile. After having sold and purchased many items in the exchange over the past few months and reading through the feedback section, I think we are much too reluctant to leave negative feedback.

I know we do this to keep things civil and to avoid confrontation, but I feel that it misrepresents our feedback rating because almost everyone has positive feedback. Yet there are always people complaining in the GBU section. Also, not leaving any feedback when you're dissatisfied doesn't help either.

Prior to getting screwed over by people not honoring their "I'll take it," I was in agreement with most members that if no actual transaction has taken place, no feedback should be given. After having been victim to that (a couple times), I now feel it's a totally legitimate reason for a negative rating. I wouldn't leave a negative rating out of spite, but because others should know if a member has a history of doing this. It's unfair to both the seller and other potential buyers.

Inaccurate descriptions on the condition of the knife should also be grounds for an instant negative rating, regardless if the problem was worked out after the sale, whether it be a return, partial refund, or an apology. Again, other members should be made aware. I recently purchased a knife that was "NIB" and it looked pretty good externally, but after taking it apart to clean and oil it, there was clear evidence of it having been used. I shrugged it off as I got a decent deal and I simply chose not to leave any feedback, but again, it might benefit others to know this.

I've had at least two trades where the knife was no where near the condition described. Thankfully I had them ship first due to my more established feedback. When they were confronted about the condition of the knife, they were initially defensive and stood by their word but they've always backed down and come clean about the knife's history after some simple prodding (it seems that "I just got it from a friend, he told me it was new...I thought they were all like that" is a common excuse). In all of these cases, either the trade was adjusted accordingly or canceled completely. Again, no feedback was given as the trades ended up working out, but this info is probably valuable for other potential buyers/traders.

All of the members in the above examples have flawless records. Surely there are others that have been in my situation(s) before.

I know it's not the end of the world when these problems are encountered, but neither is a tiny frown on your iTrader profile.

Like I said, even when things get worked out, I feel negative feedback is warranted. In the feedback summary, just explain that the problem is resolved but document the initial issue.

edit: Or perhaps we under utilize the "neutral" rating.
 
Yeah, there was once where I didn't use the neg. when I should have. Someone sold me a Delica that was "new except for swapped scales." When I got it, the opening/closing was really gritty, so I opened it up to oil it. I found wrinkled up washers. I happened to have some spare washers on hand, so I just let it go without leaving any feedback. I really should have left the negative, but I didn't want him to hit me back with one saying, "Well he didn't give me a chance to resolve the issue..." I didn't want to go through the trouble "resolving" the issue with him after I fixed it myself, so I simply didn't leave feedback.
 
I have had 3 of the knives I bought on the exchange not be what they were described to be over the years. Once there was a part to the clip missing, and the other time when I went to switch the clip over to lefty one of the holes was malformed and too big to hold the screw. The last one was a knife that was not centered upon closing.

On the first one I just picked up a barrel bolt free from Spyderco. One the other two the sellers were quick to offer to take the knife back and I do beleive in all cases they were honest mistakes.

I agree for something severe people should leave negative feedback but I'm just throwing this out there for the sake of saying that sometimes things get overlooked.

I am a lot more forgiving of the mistake. To me it's all how it's handled after you contact the seller with a problem.
 
I agree with the last comment. If it is handled properly, no worries. I've bought a couple knives here that were said to be NIB, upon recieving that were less than advertised. What I find truly interesting, is that some people will not leave feedback no matter what you do as a seller. You can take all the care in the world pqckaging, make contact and communicate quickly and efficiently, and request they email you upon receipt to verify everything is satisfactory and nothin...
 
I think people have a a few hangups when it comes to feedback.

- They want to give people the benefit of the doubt and would rather take Mom's advice about not saying anything at all if you can't say anything nice.

- A lot of people are afraid of confrontation and would rather just let it slide and preserve the loose, internet relationship with the buyer than get into the pissing match they expect it will turn into and often does.

- It takes time and energy to respond and "resolve" these issues. Some people don't want to spend/waste it and would rather just accept the problem. That's a value decision.

- I think nearly everyone is concerned about negative feedback retaliation.

There are a lot of problems with most feedback systems themselves. I think you can boil most of them down into two categories - Objectivity and Expectations. Feedback as currently done is almost completely subjective and is based on opinion instead of data. A good example is shipping. The feedback question is "was the item shipped in a timely manner?" when the data of "how long did it take the seller to ship the item after you purchased it?" is fact based and useful. Opinions are subjective and data is objective. If I'm trying to make a decision, I'd rather do it on fact than opinion. If you must have an overall "feelings" question, it should be "based on all your previous online transactions, how do you rate this one on a scale of 1 to 10." Expectations are the other problem area. From what I've seen the most frequent issues are condition and shipping. Sellers need to be ultra conservative and accurate in their descriptions. If you didn't buy the knife yourself and can't say with absolute certainty that it has never been used, then state that. Everyone needs to agree on the terminology (NIB vs LNIB, etc). I'd rather see a short summaryof history and observed condition than a label. The other thing I've seen is expectation vs. reality mismatch on shipping costs and time. Once again, sellers need to make it very clear on how soon after puchase they will ship and by what method/carrier. Buyers need to understand that overnight door to door with insurance and signature service is not $3.99, it's not even $10.99. This may all sound like common sense, but if it were, I don't think we'd have nearly as many issues on this forum or the online auction sites.

That's a REALLY long winded way of saying that I think a more fact based feedback system with a few simple questions that stayed away from opinions and subjective comments would make people more likely to leave feedback and be less likely to devolve into a personal attack or a 12 page thread on how some dirtbag screwed someone over on a deal (although those can be fascinating reading).

The statement "I paid $100 for a NIB Sebenza from awesumknifeguy. He said he'd ship in 48 hours but didn't ship it for 4 days and charged me $35 to ship from Atlanta to Savannah parcel post. The knife had a chipped blade and missing clip when it arrived." tells me everything I need to know and is much more useful than "awesumknifeguy is a douchebag and stole my money--stay away!"

That being written, the system is what is I right now. I wish people would leave more feedback and if you stay factual it isn't negative, it just is. People will draw their own conclusions and make their own choices from the facts. Color commentary not required. Of course this is just my opinion and entirely subjective.
 
Hi S.C. -

Yes - I think, after reading some of the recent threads in gb&u, that many people here are unwilling to leave APPROPRIATE feedback.

In your example, your feedback may have been positive with a comment, or perhaps neutral, again with a comment.

The point is, the only way that a feedback system can work for us is if people are "intellectually honest" with themselves when leaving feedback.

If you were mostly satisfied, but "there was that one thing", then explain that in the comments.

In addition, I think it is only fair play to allow someone to make it right to you, so that means you have to let the person know of whatever problems there were so that the person can deal with it. Only then can you leave proper and honest feedback.

best regards -

mqqn
 
Just post the facts of what happened in TGB&U. You don't have to post any opinions at all (such as "that was unethical" or "I think he did that deliberately"). Just tell what happened and leave it to the reader to decide for himself what he thinks of it.

The itrader feedback system is limited at best and can't substitute for TGB&U.
 
the turnoff for me has been the rash of lawsuits resulting from bad feedback - leaving bad feedback got someone sued for harming the business' sales; regardless of right or wrong, to me, it's not worth the hassle of dealing with them. If leaving bad feedback, I'm strictly factual providing dates and times without an inkling of opinion. I do feel that if you leave feedback and a company makes it right, you should go append the correction to your initial bad feedback.
 
Just post the facts of what happened in TGB&U. You don't have to post any opinions at all (such as "that was unethical" or "I think he did that deliberately"). Just tell what happened and leave it to the reader to decide for himself what he thinks of it.

The itrader feedback system is limited at best and can't substitute for TGB&U.

Amen to that. We have an OBLIGATION to our fellow members to be up front about our trade experiences here in GB&U. You don't have to rant, accuse, get personal, etc. BUT YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO STATE THE FACTS.

We are discriminating enough to read these posts and see the difference between someone who makes an honest mistake and makes it right and a slimeball who never responds, or only responds under threat of legal action or banning.

How pissed would you be to post about getting screwed on a trade, then see a bunch of responses about "Yeah, that same guy screwed me too, but I figured what the hell, and didn't post anything."
 
the turnoff for me has been the rash of lawsuits resulting from bad feedback - leaving bad feedback got someone sued for harming the business' sales; regardless of right or wrong, to me, it's not worth the hassle of dealing with them. If leaving bad feedback, I'm strictly factual providing dates and times without an inkling of opinion. I do feel that if you leave feedback and a company makes it right, you should go append the correction to your initial bad feedback.

I do not think anyone would get in a lawsuit over leaving neg feedback for a seller unless it was a lie done to intentionally hurt the sellers business and the seller would have to prove that.
 
Too broad a brush.

Frankly some of the insane rantings I've seen around are such overreactions it stuns me. Of course many are very reasonable.

Some of the crazier things I've seen.

Expectations that some Avg Joe has daily pick up by a shipper and industrial packing materials for any little thing they ship.

I personally feel that a dented factory box for a knife is no big deal yet a thread the other day was absolutely blasting someone for putting one in a bulk rate shipping envelope....sheesh. Absolutely nothing was wrong with the knife as a result of shipping but the "precious" factory box had been flattened a bit....christ, some commercial retailers ship the exact same way.

The best part of that transaction was that it was a low grade user level knife, not any sort of custom. it was the type of knife that I buy <$150. I keep my boxes around because people seem to want them, but I could care less about the condition of a completely generic production knife box. It's ridiculous to worry over that.

Speed of shipping is another one...people ranting like complete lunatics that a private seller on a Friday afternoon didn't get them a tracking number. I live in an area with shipping points all over the place and I'd never get an email order on a Friday afternoon in the mail. It would be some sort of amazing coincidence if I had time to do that with an actual family and job to deal with.

So there are reasonable complaints here for sure, some real scumbags in knifedom out there, but there are also the wild rantings of lunatics. So do I want to see more of them? No, not really, to tell the truth. I think we see enough.

If someone rips me off, I wouldn't hesitate to post about it though, but my standards in risk based private seller purchases are a lot lower a bar than many it would seem. If I want something 'new', I buy it 'new' and not from some guy's desk. If I buy from ebay or other private seller venues, flea markets etc, I expect and accept some inherent risk.
 
Cyberlibel is a catchphrase for defamation that takes place through the Internet, either on messageboards, email, blogs, chatrooms, personal websites, or other published articles. Defamation, in real life, means that someone has communicated a false and damaging statement to a third party that does verifiable harm to the defamed person's reputation. Since cyberlibel occurs over cyberspace, it raises legal issues of free speech, public figures, opportunities to refute the statements, and anonymity that may warrant new laws and regulation.
 
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