Are you serious Buck?

[Samon]

Regarding the first knife and me using it to break rabbit bones - a tiny leg bone is hardly a tough task for any knife, I used to do it with my hand but the brittle bones can stab your hand and it hurts! I didn't smash them, just cracked them to get the marrow out.. this isn't hard as boiled bones are brittle and easily crack with a little force. The blade already had plenty of back and forth and side to side play, and after the lock failure it was sloppy beyond anything. Like someone mentioned already, it's that super soft brass pivot pin! it can't hold its shape under use.

The stab that induced the tip to snap was a very light jab to break off some already rotten and flimsy wooden bits, not a mega stab while practicing my dragon slaying. I have done and still do the same with my swiss army knife blade with no issues.


Regarding trying a new brand: well.. I understand there are plenty of super strong modern lock knives for sale now but the majority are tactical type ones and although spyderco and stuff make really good models they just aren't my thing. That's why I had a look at the Cold steel ones because I remembered they had a simular looking hunter style folder.

No reply from Mr.Hubbard yet, but I can imagine he will reply later today.

 

[555]

Sorry to hear you're having trouble with Buck 110's.
I have been buying, owning, using Buck 110's since the early 70's. Just pulled out 2 of my tarnished EDC's with tang dates of 2006 and 2009 both carried and used, still tight within reason to allow them to open easily. Yes the blades are a little off center when closed that doesn't take away from the function of the knife.

I've never had a 110 fail or had the blade tip break off. It's a folding Hunter and works well at what it's built for.

As for the 30 to 70 dollars: I throw away more money than this in a week at the gas pump buying a product that isn't as good as it used to be, that not only plays heck with my equipment, but gums them up and can make them run poorly. Meanwhile: the little money spent on 110's has been money well spent in my case. The fuel is long gone that took me to the store to buy them, but I still have and use the 110's for what they were made for. Getting a return on my money every time I use them.

 

[pinnah]

I tried to break rabbit bones with the back of the blade and the blade closed.. i.e failed! the lock failed with just a little pressure..

Did you press or strike the bones?

Striking the back of any brand of lock back can cause it to close. This is an understood issue with lockbacks. They shouldn't (but sometimes do) close under steady pressure. I tend to trust lockring designs like on Opinels more than lockbacks.

This is the second knife's fit and finish..

Your fit and finish pictures are what I would expect for any sub $70 production knife from any maker. IMO, if you want superlative fit and finish, you need to move up to the $100 price range.

I gave my new Buck a workout today, some half inche green and very soft twigs/branches needed cutting and replanting and my 110 was at the ready. it did very well but developed blade play almost instantly! the blade had wobble after just a few light swipes and cuts.. but I got on with the clean up and planting job I had.

I guess the old design of pin rather than bolts/screws just incurs slackness over use.

I think you're on the right track.

IMO, the development of blade play is a recurring issue with Buck lockbacks. Buck knows about the problem and assures us (on the Buck forum) they are working on the issue. We'll see.

Until then, I've found the Opinel #10 to be vastly superior to the Buck 110 for the kind of cutting you're doing.

Buck 110 and Opinel #10 by Pinnah, on Flickr

The Opinel's flat/convex blade works wood much better than the Buck's hollow grind, which is chosen for cleaning game. The Opinel's lock ring eliminates any blade play and is much more resistant when fouled with dirt and sand. The Buck is easier to clean blood and guts from through. I've had several Bucks develop blade play but never an Opinel and I've used Opinels harder than my Bucks.

I was kind of .. ok with the idea my new knife wasn't as solid as everyone else had claimed but I was still bothered. I went back out into my garden/yard at 10pm to check on my barrel fire with all the little trimmings of branches and sticks etc and I decided to stab my old rotten fence. I must state here that it is atleast 10 year old weak and rotten wood pannels (don't know what wood) and far from hard. I gave the pannels a quick stab with my 110 and pulled out the blade.. only to notice the tip was bent! not just a little off line.. but borderline snapped off.

I would never do that with a Buck 110. The 110 has a very narrow clip point on it. Some people prefer it for piercing cuts when dressing out dear and other game (some prefer drop points). This design has it's limits and busted 110 tips are very, very common. When I see them, I think, wrong tool for the job. IMO, Buck would do well to offer the 110 and 112 with a drop point option as a regular part of their line. But until then, I think it's incumbent on the user to understand the limits of a clip point.

You will notice that I modified my Opinel #10 to a drop point. This is why.

I don't really know what to do now, I'm happy to keep the knife and regrind the egde ad use it as a beater but it'll never ever be more than that - the Buck 110 just seems to be a cheap beater for the Us buyers at $30 but (cost nearly $70 for me after the exchange rate / UK) a waste of money for the rest of us!

If you're looking for a dedicated hunting knife and if you won't be using it for general purpose woodcrafting, you might let them make it right.

If you intend to continue cutting wood, I would suggest looking into a better all purpose knife. The 110 IMO is really a hunting only design.

For a folder, I think the Opinel's are tough and tough to beat.

If you have warranty money to play with from Buck, I would use it on one of their sturdy fixed blades. The Buck 103, 113, Bucklite Max Fixed Blade and Vanguard are knives I would look at (all drop points - well, the 103 isn't).

 

[Sulaco]

I agree. Forget about the 110 and get a nice fixed blade in warranty swap you can trade off for some other brand.

 

[angle iron]

Buck is a strange "rest on one's laurels" type of company. A $30-40 Voyager from Taiwan is more of a field tool than any folder Buck has ever made. Brand name and distribution keeps them alive.

You must mean the brand name they acquired by NEVER making any folder as good as a Taiwanese Voyager, right? Brilliant!! Semper Fxxxed

As others have stated I too have 110s and 112s from the 70s that are tight and solid after all the abuse an 11YO - today could give them.

 

[Samon]

I will ask about a knfie swap, I did think about his last night so I may ask if it's an option. I'm not a hunter but I do use my knives for a bit of everything i.e work, play, camping etc. I kow the tip isn't a fat robust one meant for stabbing and I woudln't have done it if the wood wasn't rotted and soft..

I would like a tradtional clip point folder for gernal purpose use and that will include all the things that go with bushcraft, camping, foraging, work and so on.

 

[buckmaster96]

You said you lived in the uk. Maybe the customs officers are playing with it as its on its way to you. Did any of the pqckages look tampered with at all

 

[phillipsted]

I stopped buying Bucks back in the early 80s for this very reason (I've got a dozen or so). They tried to keep the price point down at the expense of quality and the result was that I found other manufacturers that balanced quality/price in a different way. I'd really like to spend more money on Bucks, but they'll need to up their quality and probably try some higher-performing steels to get me interested. I'm willing to pay more for this quality.

TedP

 

[crom]

My dad's 110 from around 1970-72 is tight up and down with only a wee bit of play side to side and it looks like it's been through hell. I bought a 110 out of nostalgia at a brick and mortar shop, even got to pick the one I wanted out of a half dozen. Only to realize a week or so later the dulled bit of edge near the tip was from hitting the back spring. I gifted the knife to a friend who is more collector than user in his old age. I then got my hands on a 112 Paperstone Ranger, and besides a slight bit of up and down play the thing is solid and built very well.

 

[110 Dave]

quite the thread!
I have owned a 110 buck starting in 1967 as a electrician's helper
have I broken a buck ? yes but with one exception was my falt..
when I worked construction I used my 110's HARD!
I can tell you that a back side hit on a locked blade will bend the lock bar keeper jest ever so slightly
and it will then get worse as time goes on .. the 110 is NOT engineered for that abuse..
I think there are knives out there that are but I have not owned one..
liner locks might be better for that ..
fit and finish ... there were some issues jest before and after they moved to Idaho
chock this up to old employee disaffection and new employee/set up curve
have I gotten one with some quality issues .. yes
but they were corrected when I sent them in

for going back in time I can not fault the 440 steel and thicker edge blades of the two dots and older versions !
durable durable and I say again durable
the new steels are more brittle then the 440c jest a fact of life
there is not a thing wrong with any steel jest that each has its own thing
I is quite sure Buck will make it right as
I knows Jeff and Billy Joe Houser and they all likes customers to be rit happy wit there buck knives !

 

[pinnah]

I will ask about a knfie swap, I did think about his last night so I may ask if it's an option. I'm not a hunter but I do use my knives for a bit of everything i.e work, play, camping etc. I kow the tip isn't a fat robust one meant for stabbing and I woudln't have done it if the wood wasn't rotted and soft..

I would like a tradtional clip point folder for gernal purpose use and that will include all the things that go with bushcraft, camping, foraging, work and so on.

I would suspect you'll be continually disappointed with Bucks more extreme California style clip for these general purposes. You might do better with a less extreme clip. Opinel, Queen's Mountain Man, the GEC's.... All of these have less of a clip than the 110.

See if Buck will swap the 110 for a 113.

That would be a nice, robust do everything knife.

 

[kvaughn]

You said you lived in the uk. Maybe the customs officers are playing with it as its on its way to you. Did any of the pqckages look tampered with at all

Is this a serious response? If the knife was any good to begin with the c.o. shouldnt be able to damage it by looking at it or "playing with it". I have a 70's 110 that has been used hard including stabbing into rotten wood among other things for 30+ yrs and does not have a broken point or blade play. The real answer is that Buck q.c. has gone to the dumps and you folks from the Buck sub-forum don't want to admit it. I also doubt very seriously if it is old employee disaffection or new employee set-up problems. Even if it is,q.c. should still catch it before it goes out the door --KV

 

[hardheart]

Buck should double the MSRP with an appropriate increase in QC. If the average wage goes up in nominal dollars, then the average price for a knife can too. I'd charge maybe a third to half a day's wage at the US average income for the knife. What a working man pays for a decent ratchet or hammer can be applied to a knife at the least, imo.

 

[Alberta Ed]

That sounds like knife abuse to me. Using the back to break rabbit bones, and you're surprised it closed? And stabbing into a wood fence, and you're surprised the tip broke? A fixed blade would be a better choice. The 110 is a great knife, but it does have limits. Respect them and it will give you decades of good service.

 

[bertosknives]

Get a refund and buy a cold steel mackinac hunter triad lockback super solid no play anywhere clip point that will chew that fence up and ask for more. rabbit bones? the triad lock will not fail on rabbit bones. Amazing fit and finish, phospher bronze bushings, screw construction, centered blade for under $50 shipped no need to spend $100 on a knife to get good fit and finish thats silly people need to try spyderco,benchmade ,kershaw, ontario ,coldsteel some of these companies have awesome fit and finish for under $25.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Buck should double the MSRP with an appropriate increase in QC. If the average wage goes up in nominal dollars, then the average price for a knife can too. I'd charge maybe a third to half a day's wage at the US average income for the knife. What a working man pays for a decent ratchet or hammer can be applied to a knife at the least, imo.

But there in lies the rub. Few working men WANT to pay a more than a minimal amount for a folder these days. One of Buck's strong points is the brand name recognition that they have. They have been around long enough that there are multiple generations of working class/hunting folks who carry one because of nostalgia. Hell, I'm one of them myself. My dad has carried a Buck 110 as a work knife for 30+ years. When I joined the family business, my first purchase was a new 110 of my own for that reason.

That said, most people would rather "get by" a junky gas station folder than spend any real money on a quality knife. Sure, there are folks like on this forum who appreciate a good knife and are willing to pay for it. However, with today's Walmart consumer mentality, an old dog like Buck just isn't going to survive if it can't keep it's prices down on its most popular model.

I too would be willing to spend 70 or 80 dollars on a good 110. I'm still happy with my newish one I got a couple years ago for $30, but I would be more than willing to pay twice the price for twice the fit and finish.

On a side note: I have some money to spend at Cabela's. How do the Alaskan Guide series 110s stack up against the standard ones in terms of fit and finish? Not so much the steel used, but the walk and talk is what I'm curious about.

 

[Samon]

That sounds like knife abuse to me. Using the back to break rabbit bones, and you're surprised it closed? And stabbing into a wood fence, and you're surprised the tip broke? A fixed blade would be a better choice. The 110 is a great knife, but it does have limits. Respect them and it will give you decades of good service.

Abuse? hmm.. possibly, but not in my opinion. It's a hunting knife right? and people hunt little rabbits, and people extract the marrow from the bones (high in fat and protein) and I used my Buck 110 'hunting' knife to do the job that needed to be done. It failed to the job without a failure. try it on little chicken bones, it's pretty much the same force needed to split them to scrape out the marrow.

Yeah the tip in the rotten fence wasn't a hunting 'act' directly, but it wasn't done in a rough or reckless way. I needed a few splinters of wood like usual and the knfie didn't do it without losing it's tip. It dopesn't matter if it's a folder or a fixed blade there, the blade broke that time not the body/lock.

I don't have the money or time to go easy on a tool. I bought something that is known for being tough and hard wearing i.e a working mans knife. I used it for light yard duties and it got sloppy, I used it for hunting/food prep and it failed. I used it to get some wood splinters for the fire and it snapped in rotted wood.

I still don't think I put these knives to anything unreasonable or anything that they shouldn't have been able to cope with.

 

[evanPGH]

That gap between the lockbar and the handle...

 

[Franciscomv]

Samon, I'm sorry to hear about your 110 issues. I can understand how frustrating it is for somebody outside the US to deal with these sort of things, because I live a few thousand miles away myself. At least the British post is trustworthy and you can send knives back for warranty work (no such luck with the Argentine mail service, I have to use FedEx or my knives get stolen). I can also relate to the price difference you mention, a Buck 110 costs about $80 or more around here.

I've got a 110 and a 112 in my EDC rotation, both of them get used regularly at the ranch or on hikes. I don't have any complaints about them, but they are both a few years old so QC might have got worse. I bent the tip on an older ('70s vintage) 110, but that happens when you use a needle thin tip to trim and clean horse hooves (my bad).

Bliner locksocks are a different story, in my (bad) experience. I've owned three, a Vanguard and two Crosslocks, they wessentiallyialy friction folders. I can push the blade close with little effort.

If Buck sends you a new one, just sell it. If you want a good locking folder with traditional lines (id est, not "tactical" looking) and don't want to spend too much, AG Russell has a few models (medium barlow, gunstock, folding hunter, etc.). Another option is the Queen Mountain Man, a pricier than the 110 or most of the Chinese made AG Russell knives, but fit and finish is excellent. I've had Queen knives come blunt from the factory, though.

 

[Luis G.]

That sounds like knife abuse to me. Using the back to break rabbit bones, and you're surprised it closed? And stabbing into a wood fence, and you're surprised the tip broke? A fixed blade would be a better choice. The 110 is a great knife, but it does have limits. Respect them and it will give you decades of good service.

Exactly. I started with a vantage pro but noticed it had blade play, I tried to use it for hard use darn near abusive situations like cutting cardboard and tape but noticed it developed more blade play.
I put it down, and relieved it to glancing duty. Where I just glance at it, I do feel it get looser though as I glance.
Next I got a Sebenza, which unfortunately couldn't handle more than cutting ribbons for balloons.
Finally I got tired of it and get a ZT 561, super hard use. I can say it opens my letters just fine.

For anything more, like wood, cardboard boxes (priority mail boxes), or cutting open retail packages, etc I have a crowbar I sharpened.

Yes indeed those darn Rabbit bones and things would easily break my crowbar.

Sorry couldn't help it.