As we all know, Arkansas stones, for the most part, are and have always been marketed as stones that are to be used with oil. On the other hand, many if not all of the well known natural stones from Europe, have always been marketed to be used either dry or with water. This goes for stones like the Pradalunga of the Italian Lombardia region. But also for the French Pyrenees stone and stones like the Ardennes Coticule of Belgium and the German Thüringen stone. Does anyone know why this so? Is it a cultural/habitual thing? Or is there a specific reason behind it?
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Arkansas stones and oil, a 'cultural' thing?
- Thread starter Fass
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It has to do with the hardness of the bond. Oil is better lubricating and reduces wear on the abrasive, which is more important to prevent glazing when using hard stones. Many American sharpening stones were used with water instead of oil, the various sorts sold for use as scythe stones being chief among them, as well as grinding wheels. But the grades of stone used for those were all soft enough that they'd shed grit readily when used in their intended context and would expose fresh grit.
As 42 mentioned, it's because they are not very friable. Very little of an Ark gets eroded away over time compared to most stones. In such a case, one would like to keep the sharp grit edges that are present sharp for as long as possible. Over time, these stones become worn or glazed and act finer and finer in use. If you are only doing light finishing with the stone this can take quite a long while and isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway. If you're bearing down on the stone it might be beneficial to refresh the surface now and again.
Also, at least one of the stones you listed has absolutely been used with oil. Notably the Coticule. It's use with oil has been well documented in old barbering manuals, sales literature such as catalogs and personal anecdotes.
Also, at least one of the stones you listed has absolutely been used with oil. Notably the Coticule. It's use with oil has been well documented in old barbering manuals, sales literature such as catalogs and personal anecdotes.
cudgee
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Interesting about the Coticule and oil, that is why this place is so good, always something new to learn.
You are absolutely right about the Coticule. The 'official' current instruction from the Ardennes Coticule company however, is to use water.
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Yes, Arkansas stones can glaze very quickly, if not adequately lubricated. Oil does that better than water, keeping the surface more uniformly 'wetted' than water will. In a dry environment, water evaporates too quickly from the surface of the stone. Oil also does a better job suspending swarf above the working surface, allowing much easier cleaning of the stone, whereas swarf will sink and clog the stone if used with water. And a clogged stone tends to encourage use of greater pressure in grinding, which then tends to increase wear and glazing of the abrasive. So the clogging and glazing go hand-in-hand, somewhat. Oil works better to minimize both.
Glazing can also be caused by grinding steels that are more wear-resistant than the grit of the stone itself. The carbides in wear-resistant steels are much harder than the novaculite grit in the stone. So effectively, the carbides will wear & polish the stone's grit. So one needs to be choosy about the steel types sharpened on Arkansas stones, for the sake of the stone's working usefulness and longevity. Ark stones are really at their best performance with simpler carbon steels like 1095, CV, etc. and low-alloy stainless like 420HC. With anything more wear-resistant than that, the grit begins to struggle to work efficiently and other issues present themselves, like premature stone wear and glazing.
Glazing can also be caused by grinding steels that are more wear-resistant than the grit of the stone itself. The carbides in wear-resistant steels are much harder than the novaculite grit in the stone. So effectively, the carbides will wear & polish the stone's grit. So one needs to be choosy about the steel types sharpened on Arkansas stones, for the sake of the stone's working usefulness and longevity. Ark stones are really at their best performance with simpler carbon steels like 1095, CV, etc. and low-alloy stainless like 420HC. With anything more wear-resistant than that, the grit begins to struggle to work efficiently and other issues present themselves, like premature stone wear and glazing.
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I use Arkansas stones with water, soapy water or plain. This is for stones that have never been used with oil. It works fine, but you just need to be sure to clean the stones after every use. I never use the Arkansas stones for sharpening very hard, high alloy steels. I have used them for A2, but nothing like S35V. I think that tradition rules the roost. You can easily gum up a sharpening stone with goopy, thick oil. I used to like thinner oils or the sharpening oil that Norton sells Or Marvel Mystery oil. Now, I prefer keeping my tools clean when cutting wood that will need to be finished. I prefer water on natural Arkansas stones that have never been used with oil - oil and water don’t mix.
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You can still usually use water on stones that have had oil in them. It just means the water isn't as likely to penetrate the stone. And you can just add a little dish soap to the water to have it act as an emulsifier.
The key to avoid gumming up oil stones is to use a non-drying oil. Thin mineral oil like the kind you can buy at the seed-and-feed store (as opposed to the thick kind sold as a laxative) is a good one to opt for. 3-in-1 oil is commonly used but forms a varnish over time.
The key to avoid gumming up oil stones is to use a non-drying oil. Thin mineral oil like the kind you can buy at the seed-and-feed store (as opposed to the thick kind sold as a laxative) is a good one to opt for. 3-in-1 oil is commonly used but forms a varnish over time.
Actually there are a couple different 3-in-1 formulations. The red one gets sticky/gummy over time. If you want to use it, find the blue can - that oil won't do that. The antique electric fan guys use it exclusively. They are not a fan of the red can, to say the least.
As far as using water, it's fine on a novaculite stone from the finer end of the spectrum (Hard Ark, black or translucent Ark) that is used for finishing with light pressure. I would not use it for a Washita or Soft Ark, nor any finer variety if you're using much pressure. Experience and much testing has shown me that oil keeps the stone sharper and cutting faster for a lot longer that way. It also keeps a Washita WAY less clogged and makes it easier to clean. And the stones should be cleaned after every use no matter the lubricant or if used dry.
As far as using water, it's fine on a novaculite stone from the finer end of the spectrum (Hard Ark, black or translucent Ark) that is used for finishing with light pressure. I would not use it for a Washita or Soft Ark, nor any finer variety if you're using much pressure. Experience and much testing has shown me that oil keeps the stone sharper and cutting faster for a lot longer that way. It also keeps a Washita WAY less clogged and makes it easier to clean. And the stones should be cleaned after every use no matter the lubricant or if used dry.
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The blue can stuff is a special motor oil rather than their classic multi-purpose formulation. The 3-in-1 name brand produces a bunch of different lubricants but the one commonly referred to as "3-in-1 oil" is the multipurpose formula. Much like how WD-40 makes a bunch of different products but when you say to spray something with WD-40 people understand it to mean the "multipurpose product" classic formula as opposed to, for instance, their electrical contact cleaner or bicycle chain lubricant.
cudgee
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Just out of interest, my dad used to use the oil he put in 2 stroke motors, i think it was some sort of synthetic oil and was a deep red colour. He seemed to never have had an issue with stones clogging up. But as long as whatever he was sharpening was good enough for the job in hand he was happy. Would this oil be suitable as non-drying and non-varnishing?
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I have zero way of assessing that.
cudgee
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I believe the Greeks actually used oil - olive - on their stones.
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I'd be more concerned about other unknown additives in such oils, like petroleum solvents, detergents, anti-corrosion additives, etc. Sometimes the unknown additives may create health hazards via ingestion, absorption through the skin, or inhalation of vapors, etc. It's possible some of these other oils are safe, but it's harder to know for sure.
Pure, 100% USP-rated mineral oil doesn't have any of those 'unknowns', in terms of other added ingredients with possible serious risks to health. That's what I like about using it, aside from the fact it's also known to work best with oil stones anyway. The USP grades are food-safe, meaning there's no toxicity issues so long as you're not drinking cupfuls of it straight from the bottle or inhaling it. This is the stuff sometimes used as a suspension for medicines, for skin care products, as a laxative, etc. So it has a track record over decades' of time for being safe to use, even when ingested in relatively small amounts. And quality honing oils like Norton's are 100% pure mineral oil and rated food-safe as well. All of this means to say, it's worry-free for a use as basic as lubrication for a sharpening stone. I like 'worry-free', so I can just enjoy the sharpening process.
The 'light' or 'white' mineral oils are usually considered food-safe as well. This includes oils marketed for use with food-processing equipment, for lubricating paper shredders, hair clippers, etc. I've liked some I found at a restaurant supply store for lubricating food-processing equipment. It's clearly marked as food safe and 100% pure, and is a close working match to the more expensive Norton Sharpening Stone Oil, which is my favorite overall. All of these 'light' or 'white' mineral oils are completely colorless, odorless and tasteless as well. Very clean stuff.
I have been using Norton Sharpening Oil on my DMT diamond stones for some time.
It makes the stones easier to clean and I believe gives me scratch patterns less deep than dry or with water. Moving on to next finer stone faster is helped due to thicker film of lubricant. This also help retain the life of the stone since the diamonds are not torn away as easily when dry.
In addition, a light coating of Norton Oil on ceramic stones helps prevent clogging and loading the ceramic surface with swarf and makes cleaning much easier, a paper towel with oil and wipes it clean.
Regards,
FK
It makes the stones easier to clean and I believe gives me scratch patterns less deep than dry or with water. Moving on to next finer stone faster is helped due to thicker film of lubricant. This also help retain the life of the stone since the diamonds are not torn away as easily when dry.
In addition, a light coating of Norton Oil on ceramic stones helps prevent clogging and loading the ceramic surface with swarf and makes cleaning much easier, a paper towel with oil and wipes it clean.
Regards,
FK
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That would be fine, but it is an expensive way to go about it. Have alook at buying a 4oz bottle of Lansky 'Nathan's honing oil' which is a far better option for long term use.
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If it's rated food-safe by that NSF H1 standard, I'd assume it'd be fine. But again, in looking for specifics about it's content online, there doesn't seem to be anything specific about what it contains, mineral oil or otherwise. More 'unknowns', in other words. But with that being said, I'd again assume the 'food safe' rating is worth something, at least.
And as with many other specialty-branded lubricant products in tiny bottles, it's probably more expensive on a per-use basis than simple USP-grade mineral oil. In fact, looking online, it's a LOT more expensive. I see pricing in the $5 - $7 range for a 10ml bottle. Compare to the USP-grade Norton Sharpening Stone Oil in 4-1/2 fl. oz. can for $6 - $8 or so, and the oil I found for food-processing equipment, priced around $8 for a 16 oz. bottle, as I recall.
If I had to guess, I'd say that sounds like Marvel Mystery Oil. But obviously can't say for certain. It can't be used as a sole 2 stroke engine oil but lots of guys used to add it to both 2 and 4 stroke engines. I would guess it would work fine for honing, it's something like 5 weight. Has a bit of a peculiar smell though. Some like it, some don't. I use it in the line lubricator for air tools.