Art Knives and Working Knives

Aren't we lucky that not all people like the same? The difference is what causes excitement !! It's not just "art knives" that cause interesting conversations. What about pracrical useable designs and types of metal? I feel that all aspects of knife making can create contraversy. Its a good thing not a bad thing. The only time problems can occur are when people ask for comments on their work and only expect to hear only good remarks. If the bad is there then don't ask for comments unless you are prepared to hear them, and maybe don't post pictures at all. Frank
 
Patrice, I think you're pointing out two different phenomenon.

  1. One is a conversation about differences, similarities, values, attributes, etc of tools and/or art. There are literally volumes and courses of study that can take up years discussing/exploring the meaning, purpose and merit (or not) of art.
  2. The other point you raise is about critiques, criticism and judgement. That can be discussed as a subject all on its own. In other words, it is possible to critique and judge the process of criticism as it's own content of discussion (independent of the medium as discussion content.)
 
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...Oh! I see,... now it's front brain vs rear brain. ;)

"The brain is my second favorite organ." Woody Allen.
 
I mean the core, instinct part that doesn't necessarily "think" consciously. I'm not really up on the terminology, but yeah, that sounds familiar.

Thanks for the inspiration re: my new "title", by the way. :thumbup:
 
I mean the core, instinct part that doesn't necessarily "think" consciously. I'm not really up on the terminology, but yeah, that sounds familiar.

Thanks for the inspiration re: my new "title", by the way. :thumbup:

I try to help where I can...
 
Give me that art knife and I can soon make it into a regular every day carry, working type knife. Get some dirt on it.

:eek:
 
Well said Patrice!!

I appreciate all knives. My personal preference is to follow my muse, and to sit back and enjoy watching where other people go with their vision.

I admit I don't care for sci-fi Klingon 6 bladed knives, but also know that the people who make them and buy them have their own opinion.

I personally want to make only knives that are works of art that have the heat treat nailed. Works if art that cut.

I have heard too much talk that art knives can't cut. Maybe some, but as a stereotype? Really?

BTW, you and Tai are largely responsible for getting me to look into the artistic side of knives deeper.

My personal foray into the world of Art knives was unintentional. I saw a pair of knives here with the same theme in different materials, and bought them both, expecting to use one and give my wife the other. When they arrived neither would cut paper and both had uneven grinds that were very well mirror polished. I don't believe in knives that can't cut, so now both have had their mirror polish marred by me having to reset the bevels and sharpen edges. If I had known up front that they weren't meant to cut I would have asked the maker if he could change that aspect or not bought it. A friend from the arctic made an ulu in her jewelry class, fully quenched but not made to cut, and she explains it as such. That, I think is the difference in the art vs working debate- disclosure. If your knife isn't meant to cut them please let people know that upfront. Then there can be no hard feelings. If you are embarrassed to say that there is no edge then perhaps looking at your business model again should be a priority, as the bad taste left from a dissatisfied customer lasts a long time. I know the maker I bought from is a good guy from following his posts here, but will not buy from him again most likely because of my initial experience.

I collect what I call "Blue collar gold class" knives. Ones that I find good looking that will still perform alongside more pedestrian looking knives. The looks good:works well does not have to be an either:eek:r situation IMO. If I pay a lot of money for a knife (for me), I better be able to use it as a knife.

Some things never change...

I like making both, art knives, users, both extremes and everything in between. Variety is the spice of life! When I was first starting out my primary focus was on art knives. At some point I guess I got a little tired of that and starting making more users. Don't know how that works out philosophically, but it helped break things up and was a good business move. If I had primarily made users,... making a few art knives would have been an equally good move business wise.

I think Patrice has a point. If you just make art knives, folks will say your knives won't get used and/or won't cut. If you just make users, folks will say you have no appreciation for beauty and are just a blue collar tool maker.

Disclosure again is key here I think, Tai. I once commented on a knife you posted, asking what the perceived purpose/use of the knife was. As I perceived it, you rudely blew me off with a "if you don't get it I won't explain it to you" type of responce. I only wanted to know if you had an end use in mind/ if it was meant as a show piece of your creativity, or if it was a mixture of the two. The way you responded to me struck me as arrogant and dismissive, when I was honestly just trying to envision how you came about with the final product. Not that you need me as a customer, but that kind of remark stuck with me and gave me a bad taste about you as a maker, as you came off as an arrogant snob where your work is concerned. I understand that you are a proud artist, but (IMO) too many proud artists come across as arrogant jerks in many fields, while most of the more pedestrian artisans come across as humble common people. This perception can be further extrapolated toward the entirety of the more art based makers and sour an individual toward the entire genre. Now I haven't heard negatives toward Gil Hibben as a person (for example) and try not to judge a person based on their niche, but it takes conscious effort at times to realize when I start to become judgmental- and many people I've met are not as introspective.

I find common perception to be a dangerous thing- at times new makers spend much effort on getting their knives to look like a Hanson/Fisk/Loveless..... in terms of cleanliness, lines etc. rather than finding their own style, and other times trying to find their own style moreso than finding what makes a good working knife. I'm not sure where I stand in that spectrum, but try and balance both, as I find many of my favorite makers do. To me true success is when you have quality workmanship in a style that is clearly your own- no matter if you gravitate toward the artistic or the practical side.

Enough rambling, back to your regularly scheduled reading from people that know what they are talking about.....
 
I vote this thread be re-titled "Art Knives AND Working Knives".

I like things that are well thought out and well executed.

"To each his dentifrice." --Opus
 
My personal foray into the world of Art knives was unintentional. I saw a pair of knives here with the same theme in different materials, and bought them both, expecting to use one and give my wife the other. When they arrived neither would cut paper and both had uneven grinds that were very well mirror polished. I don't believe in knives that can't cut, so now both have had their mirror polish marred by me having to reset the bevels and sharpen edges. If I had known up front that they weren't meant to cut I would have asked the maker if he could change that aspect or not bought it. A friend from the arctic made an ulu in her jewelry class, fully quenched but not made to cut, and she explains it as such. That, I think is the difference in the art vs working debate- disclosure. If your knife isn't meant to cut them please let people know that upfront. Then there can be no hard feelings. If you are embarrassed to say that there is no edge then perhaps looking at your business model again should be a priority, as the bad taste left from a dissatisfied customer lasts a long time. I know the maker I bought from is a good guy from following his posts here, but will not buy from him again most likely because of my initial experience.

I collect what I call "Blue collar gold class" knives. Ones that I find good looking that will still perform alongside more pedestrian looking knives. The looks good:works well does not have to be an either:eek:r situation IMO. If I pay a lot of money for a knife (for me), I better be able to use it as a knife.



Disclosure again is key here I think, Tai. I once commented on a knife you posted, asking what the perceived purpose/use of the knife was. As I perceived it, you rudely blew me off with a "if you don't get it I won't explain it to you" type of responce. I only wanted to know if you had an end use in mind/ if it was meant as a show piece of your creativity, or if it was a mixture of the two. The way you responded to me struck me as arrogant and dismissive, when I was honestly just trying to envision how you came about with the final product. Not that you need me as a customer, but that kind of remark stuck with me and gave me a bad taste about you as a maker, as you came off as an arrogant snob where your work is concerned. I understand that you are a proud artist, but (IMO) too many proud artists come across as arrogant jerks in many fields, while most of the more pedestrian artisans come across as humble common people. This perception can be further extrapolated toward the entirety of the more art based makers and sour an individual toward the entire genre. Now I haven't heard negatives toward Gil Hibben as a person (for example) and try not to judge a person based on their niche, but it takes conscious effort at times to realize when I start to become judgmental- and many people I've met are not as introspective.

I find common perception to be a dangerous thing- at times new makers spend much effort on getting their knives to look like a Hanson/Fisk/Loveless..... in terms of cleanliness, lines etc. rather than finding their own style, and other times trying to find their own style moreso than finding what makes a good working knife. I'm not sure where I stand in that spectrum, but try and balance both, as I find many of my favorite makers do. To me true success is when you have quality workmanship in a style that is clearly your own- no matter if you gravitate toward the artistic or the practical side.

Enough rambling, back to your regularly scheduled reading from people that know what they are talking about.....

Sorry about that. As I recall the question had already been answered... and/or I felt was just unanswerable to your satisfaction at the time...

You can always just sit back and listen when the mood strikes me. LOL
(How's that for "arrogant and dismissive"?)

… Demanding on the spot answers and flattery will get you no where. ;)
 
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I once had an art professor of mine advise me that,… “If you want to make art, make art. If you want to make knives, make knives,… but don’t ever try and mix the two."

... naturally, I saw that as an invitation and an opportunity. :)
 
... I once had a world famous expressionist painter (Paul Jenkins) tell me, "Your knives aren't art,... they're better than art."

That just kills a fellow!...
 
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work knives..... cutting and killing like a honey badger!

Art knives...... cutting and killing with style

its all good

"can't we all just get a long................... The Great Mr. King..... Rodney that is"

jake
 
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