Article: Arrested for carrying a pockeknife in NYC

[mnblade]

Jeff Smith of the Tucson Citizen wrote this scary tale of his daughter being arrested in the NY subway when a cop noticed the clip of the the knife she was carrying.

 

[Cougar Allen]

 

[nodh]

We dont have that problem in the "old part of the world".
What is it about you people and all these pocket clips on every edge tool there is.
If she had just had it in her pocket like a normal Swiss Army knife noone would have bothered her in the first place. Why show to everyone and his cousin "Hey, I have a knife"

The second thing that confuses me is that everyone is so fanatical into this "self defense" crap. A knife is a TOOL to cut different kinds of materials with. Why do you need a knife for self defence? because the other guy has a knife and he might be a bad guy? I need a bigger weapon because the other guy has a weapon.

Compare a Victorinox folder with different gizmoes on and a CQC7 with Wave. One is mainly for solving problems during a picnic and the other one is for cutting people.
There is no normal need whatsoever for a knife that opens up in no time at all.
There might be some special uses but there are not that many cayaking people, paragliders, climbers etc. out there to justify the need for so many types of swish swosh knives.

There is no use for a knife for self defense. 1: the bad guy always has the initiative. 2: you need lots of training to "survive" a knife fight 3: knife fights are not minute long like those with Steven Seagal, a real one is over in seconds and usually the bad guy wins.

Well, I too would like to have a CQC7 with wave just because it might be cool, but it might end up in the collection because a SAK or similar knife is more likely to pass any eventual security check. Even a Gestapo trained, Al-Qaida indoctrinated NY cop that had not gotten his coffee yet. Hey, it is the new intel from DHS "We can not find any Al Qaida, we have looked for people with bandaged heads but there are none so they must be in disguise, maybe they look like young kids with pocket knives".

Just because you have the RIGHT to bear arms, doesnt mean that it is RIGHT all the time.

 

[the possum]

Compare a Victorinox folder with different gizmoes on and a CQC7 with Wave. One is mainly for solving problems during a picnic and the other one is for cutting people.
There is no normal need whatsoever for a knife that opens up in no time at all.

We obviously have very, very different perspectives on knife use. (meaning you vs. myself, when I said "we".)

I suppose the most productive thing I can say at this point is, "I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote. Have a nice day."

 

[billym]

What a terrible story. That cop should be busted down to writing tickets.
NYC has become a police state full of sheeple.
When I visit family there I actually remove the clip from a knife so I can't instinctively clip it like I do every other day.
Stay out of NYC if you can help it.

 

[jonnymac44]

We dont have that problem in the "old part of the world".
What is it about you people and all these pocket clips on every edge tool there is.
If she had just had it in her pocket like a normal Swiss Army knife noone would have bothered her in the first place. Why show to everyone and his cousin "Hey, I have a knife"

Sorry to harp on you here nodh, but you're just missing the point here. Our constitution doesn't say that we have the right to bear arms in order to complete tasks at a picnic. It says we have the right to bear arms, period. Many people here take their civil liberties very seriously, especially when, like this poor girl Liza, they have a clean record and have no intention of doing wrong. Sure, she could have put a small knife in her pocket out of sight, but she shouldn't have to, and I hope she doesn't in the future either.

Take care,
Jon

 

[Hard H2O]

This is not about the socialist old world versus the new world with our second ammendment. In the old world of Great Britain you will be hassled with just as you would in NY and DC.

What kind of knife was she carrying?

 

[rifon2]

Sorry to harp on you here nodh, but you're just missing the point here. Our constitution doesn't say that we have the right to bear arms in order to complete tasks at a picnic. It says we have the right to bear arms, period. Many people here take their civil liberties very seriously, especially when, like this poor girl Liza, they have a clean record and have no intention of doing wrong. Sure, she could have put a small knife in her pocket out of sight, but she shouldn't have to, and I hope she doesn't in the future either.

Take care,
Jon

There was a time when NYC was a very cool place.

The cops gave everyone a lot of rope, except for the really bad guys.

Then Giuliani came in with his "I'm gonna clean this place up" mentality, and things changed drastically. One of his most important tactics was to become really aggressive about seemingly minor offenses. People were quite suddenly getting arrested for acts which previously got you a warning at most.

Then, with the new attitude firmly in place, the city was attacked on 9/11.

After that, all bets were off. Military were patrolling the subways with M16s, people were getting stopped for all kinds of specious reasons, and, well - law enforcement became paranoid and highly empowered at the same time.

New York City still feels 9/11 and the many rules that were put into place after the attack. One thing for sure, the police continue to be very aggressive with respect to all kinds of seemingly minor infractions.

Like having a knife clip exposed.

The City has moved far away from the cool place it was, not even that long ago, to basically have become a "fortified city".


(I don't like it, and avoid the place though I live relatively nearby.)

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

We dont have that problem in the "old part of the world".
What is it about you people and all these pocket clips on every edge tool there is.
If she had just had it in her pocket like a normal Swiss Army knife noone would have bothered her in the first place. Why show to everyone and his cousin "Hey, I have a knife"

The second thing that confuses me is that everyone is so fanatical into this "self defense" crap. A knife is a TOOL to cut different kinds of materials with. Why do you need a knife for self defence? because the other guy has a knife and he might be a bad guy? I need a bigger weapon because the other guy has a weapon.

Compare a Victorinox folder with different gizmoes on and a CQC7 with Wave. One is mainly for solving problems during a picnic and the other one is for cutting people.
There is no normal need whatsoever for a knife that opens up in no time at all.
There might be some special uses but there are not that many cayaking people, paragliders, climbers etc. out there to justify the need for so many types of swish swosh knives.

There is no use for a knife for self defense. 1: the bad guy always has the initiative. 2: you need lots of training to "survive" a knife fight 3: knife fights are not minute long like those with Steven Seagal, a real one is over in seconds and usually the bad guy wins.

Well, I too would like to have a CQC7 with wave just because it might be cool, but it might end up in the collection because a SAK or similar knife is more likely to pass any eventual security check. Even a Gestapo trained, Al-Qaida indoctrinated NY cop that had not gotten his coffee yet. Hey, it is the new intel from DHS "We can not find any Al Qaida, we have looked for people with bandaged heads but there are none so they must be in disguise, maybe they look like young kids with pocket knives".

Just because you have the RIGHT to bear arms, doesnt mean that it is RIGHT all the time.

Please keep your anti-knife propaganda bottled up in your sparkling clean, freshly washed socialist brain. Thanks. :thumbup:

 

[mkhop]

I have been in a few situations where the quick presence of my knife has saved my bacon . I understand that it is the knife in the open that violates the law in NYC and not so much the knife. I am not fond of citys but have to say that NYC is a marvel.

 

[powernoodle]

No disrespect to Nodh, but google "Sweden surrenders" and look at everything that pops up. While I am no anthropologist, there is certainly a different mindset in Sweden on the issue of sovereignty, freedom, etc. which manifests itself in part to the differing point of view when it comes to the question of whether it is good or not good to defend oneself.

Thats why many of us would never fathom asking the question raised by Nodh, to wit, "Why do you need a knife for self defence?". The answer is "because surrender is not an option". And if the need for self defense never arises, which for the vast majority of us it never will, then the knife sits there harmlessly in one's pocket, awaiting its next opportunity to open an envelope.

:thumbup:

 

[Torm]

Compare a Victorinox folder with different gizmoes on and a CQC7 with Wave. One is mainly for solving problems during a picnic and the other one is for cutting people.
There is no normal need whatsoever for a knife that opens up in no time at all.
There might be some special uses but there are not that many cayaking people, paragliders, climbers etc. out there to justify the need for so many types of swish swosh knives.

Believe it or not some people don't like SAKs. I'm one of them and would rather have a knife clipped to a pocket so I don't need to dig amongst keys etc and be able to open it one-handed while doing something with the other hand. In my case at least it has nothing at all to do with self defense, but rather an efficient way of accessing and using a utility tool.

 

[guyver]

Personally tired of this "a knife is a tool" BS. Its the new PC thing to say. Yeh, a rock can be a "tool", I can also choose to carry one to crack someones head open in the needed situation. Also a screwdriver, a hammer...do I need to go on. Let alone that a knife has been a weapon since the first poiece of flint was used to cut someone. And also tired of the "There is no use for a knife for self defense. 1: the bad guy always has the initiative. 2: you need lots of training to "survive" a knife fight 3: knife fights are not minute long like those with Steven Seagal, a real one is over in seconds and usually the bad guy wins."

Why doesn't the good guy win and know how to use a knife for SD. Tell this guy he should have learned to use one, or at least what one can do to you:

http://taijutsu.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=123&Itemid=9


You want to look at a knife as a tool, go right ahead, but don't preach the BS. Its like friggin Johovas witnesses. I don't care what you think, just don't tell me to think your way.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

a knife is a tool. It can be used as a weapon, but so can a pipe wrench.

 

[rifon2]

a knife is a tool. It can be used as a weapon, but so can a pipe wrench.

Definitely.

 

[guyver]

And I'm not saying a knife is not a tool, just that it seems a lot of pepole need to say that first, as if they have a need to , a PC need to.
To me, my SAKs are tools. My Emersons, Certain Spydies and others are primarily weapons to me and depending on where I'm going, so are a host of other goodies I may choose to carry with me.

 

[robertmegar]

What is it about you people and all these pocket clips on every edge tool there is.

Its a free world, at least over here so we would like to use it... it's a great invention, just ask Sal.

The second thing that confuses me is that everyone is so fanatical into this "self defense" crap....Why do you need a knife for self defence?

Do we really need to justify the right to defend ourselves? and with what?!?

... a CQC7 with Wave. .... the other one is for cutting people.

Cutting people is done by people themselves. They knife can be use for a myriad of purposes. But you probably won't man up and say your anti-self-defense babble in front of Mr. Emerson.

There is no normal need whatsoever for a knife that opens up in no time at all.

You may not but then again, should it be banned? Some day you might need it and it will be gone.

There might be some special uses but there are not that many cayaking people, paragliders, climbers etc. out there to justify the need for so many types of swish swosh knives.

Justify, justify, justify..... No! We have rights! The goverment has to prove that I don't need it for ANY lawful purpose.

There is no use for a knife for self defense.

You and your ilk will become extinct..... if you ignore history. Knives and cutting implements are suitable for defense... proven for say.... more than 3000 years!!!!

Just because you have the RIGHT to bear arms, doesnt mean that it is RIGHT all the time.

Right time is when I choose to.... then again you may have given up your liberties and not understand.

 

[Nuke_Spook]

Nodh,

"you people"? Exactly who are you trying to identify here? Members of this forum? People who carry knives? Americans? Individuals with a reasonable amount of backbone? Please enlighten me.

As to pocket clips, I carry a knife with a pocket clip because it is easier to access (retrieve, open, close, and put away). It is not to draw attention to the fact that I am carrying a knife. Being able to take your knife out and cut something without putting that something down is a convenience not a plan of attack.

As to when it is "right" to bear arms; when we start letting other people decide when it is "okay" for an American to exercise their "Constitutional Rights" then those rights have already been taken away.

All & all I was completely unimpressed with your position and the lack of logic it demonstrated.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

And I'm not saying a knife is not a tool, just that it seems a lot of pepole need to say that first, as if they have a need to , a PC need to.
To me, my SAKs are tools. My Emersons, Certain Spydies and others are primarily weapons to me and depending on where I'm going, so are a host of other goodies I may choose to carry with me.

Why post these old pics of Prison shank injurys? I will say that I am tired of seeing people post them. About as interesting and relevant as any chain spam email.

No matter what reason you carry a knife, it is still a tool. A cutting tool. A self defense tool, however you want to put it. It is an edged tool.

 

[rifon2]

FORBES Magazine, not exactly on the lunatic fringe, placed the knife in the Number 1 position on its list of "The 20 Most Important Tools Ever".

(emphasis added)


The 20 Most Important Tools Ever
David M. Ewalt, 03.15.06, 12:00 PM ET


No. 1 The Knife
No. 2 The Abacus
No. 3 The Compass
No. 4: The Pencil
No. 5: The Harness
No. 6: The Scythe
No. 7: The Rifle
No. 8: The Sword
No. 9: Eyeglasses
No. 10: The Saw
No. 11: The Watch
No. 12: The Lathe
No. 13: The Needle
No. 14: The Candle
No. 15: The Scale
No. 16: The Pot
No. 17: The Telescope
No. 18: The Level
No. 19: The Fish Hook
No. 20: The Chisel

http://www.forbes.com/2006/03/15/technology-tools-history_cx_de_0315intro.html