Article: Arrested for carrying a pockeknife in NYC

[guyver]

Why post these old pics of Prison shank injurys? I will say that I am tired of seeing people post them. About as interesting and relevant as any chain spam email.

No matter what reason you carry a knife, it is still a tool. A cutting tool. A self defense tool, however you want to put it. It is an edged tool.

Think your mistaking it. If you read the article I linked before it, it explains it is a police officer who was attacked by someone that knew how to use a knife, trained in it. It is no prison shank. THere is a pattern and flow to the cuts.

The point is, a knife can be a weapon, you can train to use it as such, and as self defense. And, at the same time, if you train with one and find yourself without, you have a working knowledge of what may happen, how if may be used, and what you should do. If you do not have one, you know what your possibly up against, and take appropriate action IE: throw things, run...whatever it takes fior that not to happen to you. Point is not showing the pic as "hey look at the cool knife slashing", rather for people that repeatedly say its just a tool, just a tool. If the poor guy knew how to use a knife as a weapon, and found himself in this situation, he may have known what to do, whether he had a knife or not, knowing to keep the distance.

Point is, many in the world do not look at a knife as a tool, both good people and bad. You can call it a defense tool, its still meant to hurt you with that choice of words, so why not just call it what it is in that situation, a weapon.

Is that clearer Rat? Didn't mean it as spam and sorry you saw it that way. I look at it as educational. If you have background in knife fighting, it clearly shows patterns, and everyone who may end up in a situation like that should be aware of the possible.


Edit: Also I hope the article is accurate, I have no real way of knowing, but looking at the slash style, he was up against a trained individual using a knife as a weapon. He should have shot him. Hate to say it but the pc "tool' thing is too prevailant and has seemed to pwn you. Ask an average joe, show him a Spyderco Civilian....whats he gonna think....gee nice tool....or thats a wicked looking knife!... thinking weapon. Your off even by your own words. Also, as far a relevant, it is completely in the above context. In the original post, the poor girl had the common sense to know where she was, and the reality of carrying a knife as something for SD. Are you saying you are denying her that? Don't know where your coming from. If the pics make you sqeemish, sorry. But it is a good example of what you should know about knives, not fantasy, just a bit of hard reality. Talk "tool" all you want, the defenition lies in the hand of the weilder, not you. If seeing it gets your panties in a bunch....sorry is all I can say. If you've seen these pics a lot and read the article and still don't see my point, I don't think I can educate you further on the point and we'll leave it at that.

 

[tom19176]

The main reason for the push to make arrest for weapons possession is the endless effort to "reduce crime". Look at the link and be sure to look at the historic part below. Police commanders are strongly encouraged to continue this trend on crime reduction, and a method that is thought to reduce felony assault, murder. robbery and rape is arrest for weapons possession.....
http://nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cscity.pdf

 

[jonnymac44]

FORBES Magazine, not exactly on the lunatic fringe, placed the knife in the Number 1 position on its list of "The 20 Most Important Tools Ever".

(emphasis added)


The 20 Most Important Tools Ever
David M. Ewalt, 03.15.06, 12:00 PM ET


No. 1 The Knife
No. 2 The Abacus
No. 3 The Compass
No. 4: The Pencil
No. 5: The Harness
No. 6: The Scythe
No. 7: The Rifle
No. 8: The Sword
No. 9: Eyeglasses
No. 10: The Saw
No. 11: The Watch
No. 12: The Lathe
No. 13: The Needle
No. 14: The Candle
No. 15: The Scale
No. 16: The Pot
No. 17: The Telescope
No. 18: The Level
No. 19: The Fish Hook
No. 20: The Chisel

http://www.forbes.com/2006/03/15/technology-tools-history_cx_de_0315intro.html

AHA, I remember that article, and a very good point

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Think your mistaking it. If you read the article I linked before it, it explains it is a police officer who was attacked by someone that knew how to use a knife, trained in it. It is no prison shank. THere is a pattern and flow to the cuts.

The point is, a knife can be a weapon, you can train to use it as such, and as self defense. And, at the same time, if you train with one and find yourself without, you have a working knowledge of what may happen, how if may be used, and what you should do. If you do not have one, you know what your possibly up against, and take appropriate action IE: throw things, run...whatever it takes fior that not to happen to you. Point is not showing the pic as "hey look at the cool knife slashing", rather for people that repeatedly say its just a tool, just a tool. If the poor guy knew how to use a knife as a weapon, and found himself in this situation, he may have known what to do, whether he had a knife or not, knowing to keep the distance.

Point is, many in the world do not look at a knife as a tool, both good people and bad. You can call it a defense tool, its still meant to hurt you with that choice of words, so why not just call it what it is in that situation, a weapon.

Is that clearer Rat? Didn't mean it as spam and sorry you saw it that way. I look at it as educational. If you have background in knife fighting, it clearly shows patterns, and everyone who may end up in a situation like that should be aware of the possible.


Edit: Also I hope the article is accurate, I have no real way of knowing, but looking at the slash style, he was up against a trained individual using a knife as a weapon. He should have shot him. Hate to say it but the pc "tool' thing is too prevailant and has seemed to pwn you. Ask an average joe, show him a Spyderco Civilian....whats he gonna think....gee nice tool....or thats a wicked looking knife!... thinking weapon. Your off even by your own words. Also, as far a relevant, it is completely in the above context. In the original post, the poor girl had the common sense to know where she was, and the reality of carrying a knife as something for SD. Are you saying you are denying her that? Don't know where your coming from. If the pics make you sqeemish, sorry. But it is a good example of what you should know about knives, not fantasy, just a bit of hard reality. Talk "tool" all you want, the defenition lies in the hand of the weilder, not you. If seeing it gets your panties in a bunch....sorry is all I can say. If you've seen these pics a lot and read the article and still don't see my point, I don't think I can educate you further on the point and we'll leave it at that.

LOL you think you are educating me? Did you just use pwn as a word? Your Mall-Fu is uberbadass.

Your bombast about flow and patterns and knife fighting prowess that have absolutely nothing to do with the pics is pretty comical.

Anyways, I am not at all squeamish. those old pics always crop up accompanied by some BS story. Snopes is your friend . . .

 

[nodh]

Good morning from the socialist communist anti knife propaganda Sweden
I know that you disagree with me, that is totally OK in my book.
I just want you to know though that I wish that Sweden was so hard on its Basic Laws (Grundlagar) that you are on your Constitution and the Amendments. Some of the Basic Laws are from 1300 something but as someone pointed out, Sweden surrenders. Back in the old days we lost about 1/3 of our land mass to the Russians, now we are giving away almost all power to the EU without a fight. The politicians (now right wing but before socialist) changed the Basic Laws to fit the EU constitution. Now theye are even trying to invent a President or something in the EU. It is crap.

I still dont like it though that the police crash down on normal people. But it might be easier to arrest the Average Joe than real criminals.

 

[madcap_magician]

Good morning from the socialist communist anti knife propaganda Sweden
I know that you disagree with me, that is totally OK in my book.
I just want you to know though that I wish that Sweden was so hard on its Basic Laws (Grundlagar) that you are on your Constitution and the Amendments. Some of the Basic Laws are from 1300 something but as someone pointed out, Sweden surrenders. Back in the old days we lost about 1/3 of our land mass to the Russians, now we are giving away almost all power to the EU without a fight. The politicians (now right wing but before socialist) changed the Basic Laws to fit the EU constitution. Now theye are even trying to invent a President or something in the EU. It is crap.

I still dont like it though that the police crash down on normal people. But it might be easier to arrest the Average Joe than real criminals.

But on the other hand, you also had Gustavus Adolphus, one of the biggest badasses of all history. Hmm...

 

[Bigfattyt]

I am worried about almost the opposite here in Washington. The law says the knife has to be out in the open, but there is another law that makes it criminal if anyone gets scared by the knife you are supposed to carry so it it. Basically if anyone sees you with anything apparently causing bodily harm (think hammer, bat, screwdriver, just the other day I was looking at a case where the guy had a leatherman on his belt and he got charged with displaying a weapon aparrently capable of causing bodily harm, and the leatherman was never taken out of the sheath on his belt.

This leaves me with a conundrum. If the police think I am carrying "Furtively" "with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon" then I have committed a crime. But on the other hand, if I have the knife clipped to my pants pocket, and some knuckle head pisses them selves, and then calls cops on me and say they were "scared" and if I am carrying anything more ominous than cooked spagetti it is enough to support the charge.

And this worry is even considering the fact that I am working as an extern at the prosecutors office.

 

[JCaswell]

You all might remember just a week ago or so a mental patient (literally) wandered into a NY restaurant kitchen, collected a hand full of large knives, sliced the chef up, went outside and found some woman passing by and proceeded to pin her and stab her in the head and neck repeatedly.

In the press account I sensed a little disdain that no one helped the poor woman who was screaming and trying to crawl away as the madman methodically switched from knife to knife during the attack, but rather, ran or watched helplessly. (An off duty cop ended up shooting him and it still took 4 plain clothed cop to wrestle him after that. People were saying the cop was a hero.)

I'm not criticizing the cop in the least-- BUT HE HAD A GUN! A hero? I'm glad he was there and did what he did, but because of his GUN, he was the safest person in the area! I suppose the 'cowardly' people that ran were supposed to take their empty, weaponless hands and attack the deranged madman that was waving a 12-inch butcher knife in each hand!

There is NO Virtue in being helpless--NONE!

 

[UffDa]

Interesting. My wife would like to go to NY to see plays etc. She will have to wait until I'm dead. I will NEVERset foot in that state or most of the other eastern seaboard states.

This story brought to mind something that happened to us when we were returning home from our vacation in ID. We stopped for a break in Page, AZ. My wife wanted to see the visitor center at the dam. As we entered, 2 somewhat overweight officious bitches in uniform told my wife that she couldn't bring her purse into the building and they really got nasty when they noticed the clip of my Sebenza. I smiled and suggested that they have sexual relations with themselves (in a foreign language) and we left.

Picture this....a man and a women in their 60's. Both with grey hair and wrinkles. Must be terrorists. Gonna blow the place up.

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

New York State (not just NYC), and a large chunk of the NorthEast, is a thin red hair away from Nazi Germany legislatively. Positively Draconian statutes that most citizens are blissfully unaware of, with first offenders getting "the max" and virtually no judicial oversight. In NY, you can become a felon for dozens of minor offenses that would be dismissed in most other states -- and the charge is never removed from your record -- and your right to own a firearm is gone forever, even if you get a pardon.

In NYC, the municipal statute says something about the possibility of "alarming" others, so a lawfully possessed folding knife (blade 3" or less) must be completely concealed. If the officer can see the clip, it is not concealed, thus someone could be "alarmed."

2 things wrong with this case: First, the UC did not ID himself as a LEO. Really bad move. Frightened young lady on a scary subway in evil NYC is confronted by a big scruffy street person who points at her knife in a challenging and aggressive manner, as if he intended to mug or molest her. He should've -- at the very least -- displayed his badge before addressing her. You treat a girl differently than a bum or a thug. He's lucky her pansy friends didn't kick his ass for getting in her face. He's also lucky she didn't have a panic attack and slash open his face. Second, I'm familiar with a number of similar cases -- but none of them resulted in anything more than confiscation and a warning. This is the first time I've heard of an actual arrest and incarceration. Now she's in the system, and any NCIC background check will show that she has a "record" for "Criminal Possession of a Weapon" -- even if the case is dropped. And it will never be removed. She is now a "criminal" until the day she dies. A non-violent, FEMALE first offender who doubtlessly co-operated fully with everything the officer asked.

That dipshit sounds like a prime candidate for the "rubber gun squad."

 

[guyver]

LOL you think you are educating me? Did you just use pwn as a word? Your Mall-Fu is uberbadass.

Your bombast about flow and patterns and knife fighting prowess that have absolutely nothing to do with the pics is pretty comical.

Anyways, I am not at all squeamish. those old pics always crop up accompanied by some BS story. Snopes is your friend . . .

Rat, are you beyond being educated?
I'll apologize for the slang pwn, is it any worse than mall-fu
Did I not state that I don't know the accuracy of the article. Also am curious what makes your Snopes article more accurate, cause we can believe everything we read, right. I'm mainly pointing to the pictures at this point, as we may have several different articles about them. And they are the only reference to those types of slashes that I've seen, granted, I don't have the time to post almost 12,000 times in a single forum so I haven't seen it all like you have. Whether you like it or not, the slashes are consistent with the way a trained person would cut, especially the back cuts.

Just curious, have you ever trained with a knife and various styles extensively, or just type about them and bloviate. Just curious. 12,000 posts doesn't seem to leave one much free time, especially if you account for work, let alone actually training with knives/tools rather than just typing about them and making new avatars for yourself. Don't know your background, but am just a bit curious as you seem to know so much about everything, fill me in my firend. Please break down the pics and tell me how they are random, tell me how they do not have a pattern. I'm curious, I'm open to the fact that maybe you can educate me, really.

Sorry to take away from the main subject of the thread, would be happy to hear from you in PM so as not to distract.

 

[tirod3]

After looking at the pic's - which could have used a warning - I disagree that the user was well trained at all.

He failed to kill the officer. Not that I would have wished for that outcome.

It seems there is a school of thought that a knife attack is successful if the damage pictured is accomplished. Having been trained by the US Army Infantry, I see gratuitous ego-driven maiming, no deep penetrating wounds severing arteries, and an officer who potentially could respond with his firearm to stop the attack by shooting double taps in the assailant.

In all the combatives I've trained and read about, the absolute necessity to rapidly deliver mortal wounds is paramount. I don't literally see even the attempt here, and come to the conclusion this type of action is as misdirected as rape.

Paraphrasing the Lone Ranger, "I only cut to wound!" makes no sense for knives, either.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Rat, are you beyond being educated?
I'll apologize for the slang pwn, is it any worse than mall-fu
Did I not state that I don't know the accuracy of the article. Also am curious what makes your Snopes article more accurate, cause we can believe everything we read, right. I'm mainly pointing to the pictures at this point, as we may have several different articles about them. And they are the only reference to those types of slashes that I've seen, granted, I don't have the time to post almost 12,000 times in a single forum so I haven't seen it all like you have. Whether you like it or not, the slashes are consistent with the way a trained person would cut, especially the back cuts.

Just curious, have you ever trained with a knife and various styles extensively, or just type about them and bloviate. Just curious. 12,000 posts doesn't seem to leave one much free time, especially if you account for work, let alone actually training with knives/tools rather than just typing about them and making new avatars for yourself. Don't know your background, but am just a bit curious as you seem to know so much about everything, fill me in my firend. Please break down the pics and tell me how they are random, tell me how they do not have a pattern. I'm curious, I'm open to the fact that maybe you can educate me, really.

Sorry to take away from the main subject of the thread, would be happy to hear from you in PM so as not to distract.

You posted a link to a lame site where someone posted a chain email. that was your "article."

Snopes is pretty reliable. In this case, they identified the pics as training materials for law enforcement.

"Mall-fu" is not slang, I was just pointing out your lofty status as a mall ninja.

Your interpretation of the pictures is only valid within the confines of your own mind, since you know nothing about them beyond the erroneous details of a fictional email you were eager to believe. Since it is just a fantasy, why not come to the conclusion that a unicorn made the slashes with the tip of his magical horn? Just as reasonable as the fantasy you have woven for yourself.

If you want to be educated, you would do well to work on your reading and comprehension skills. This might help lessen your gullability. (at first glance, the "article" is clearly a fantasy email repost)

spinning fantasies and trying to attack me based on my post count is just plain silly. Just as it is silly to use a word like bloviate- which happens to describe your own posting style. Mine is more Succinct.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

After looking at the pic's - which could have used a warning - I disagree that the user was well trained at all.

He failed to kill the officer. Not that I would have wished for that outcome.

It seems there is a school of thought that a knife attack is successful if the damage pictured is accomplished. Having been trained by the US Army Infantry, I see gratuitous ego-driven maiming, no deep penetrating wounds severing arteries, and an officer who potentially could respond with his firearm to stop the attack by shooting double taps in the assailant.

In all the combatives I've trained and read about, the absolute necessity to rapidly deliver mortal wounds is paramount. I don't literally see even the attempt here, and come to the conclusion this type of action is as misdirected as rape.

Paraphrasing the Lone Ranger, "I only cut to wound!" makes no sense for knives, either.

The picture is not of an officer. They are pics of 2-3 different inmates.

 

[JCaswell]

I agree with Tirod here.
The back-slash photo seems like a gratuitous maiming.
With that much access to the victim, a few well-placed stabs would have been less effort and fatal.

 

[tom19176]

Any chance of returning to the real topic of this thread??

 

[Grey Mullet]

If you are going to NYC, you better take the clip off your knife. If you forget and clip your knife to your pants you might get "Giulianied". If you get the "Rudy special" they upgrade the charges to carrying a dangerous weapon, and your name goes in the automatic reject category for gun licences forever.

 

[guyver]

You posted a link to a lame site where someone posted a chain email. that was your "article."

Snopes is pretty reliable. In this case, they identified the pics as training materials for law enforcement.

"Mall-fu" is not slang, I was just pointing out your lofty status as a mall ninja.

Your interpretation of the pictures is only valid within the confines of your own mind, since you know nothing about them beyond the erroneous details of a fictional email you were eager to believe. Since it is just a fantasy, why not come to the conclusion that a unicorn made the slashes with the tip of his magical horn? Just as reasonable as the fantasy you have woven for yourself.

If you want to be educated, you would do well to work on your reading and comprehension skills. This might help lessen your gullability. (at first glance, the "article" is clearly a fantasy email repost)

spinning fantasies and trying to attack me based on my post count is just plain silly. Just as it is silly to use a word like bloviate- which happens to describe your own posting style. Mine is more Succinct.

Wow Rat, you are really one tough guy! I read through some of your posts and just as I thought, a condescending POS. Real keyboard warrior you are. You never answered whether you know anything about knife fighting, figured the answer was no. But you are the authority of those images from what you say. Silly... looking at you post times..all day posting, and the trash you talk, and I only looked at a few, not the lot, tells me what I need to know about you. Yes 12,000 posts in 2 years, many mocking others, makes you a looser, probably unemployed, maybe marginally employed, maybe living with mom.
Either way it equals wanker. The type of guy that would type things about someone but sh#t himself if he had to say it face to face. Your the guy thats gives folks the finger from in his car, but once dragged out the window has already pissed himself. Have dealt with your kind. Straight up, your a wanker.

You'll prob type some smart ass stuff afterwards, but you'll be preaching to your fan club.

Ever in Jersey look me up, send a PM, an email, would like to meet you, really, and find out what your really like without that keyboard.

Sorry to distract all, done with this douchbag.

 

[jonnymac44]

Damn rat, that guy didn't give you any slack. I wonder if he knows that's not an actual picture of you. Maybe he wouldn't have called you a wanker if he knew you look much better than your avatar. Wait a sec, that's not a real picture of you, is it?

Cheers

 

[charlesbjr]

Ok, I need to get back on topic for one minute because this stuff has me running scared!

If I am on my way up-state NY (I live in NYC) to hunt, have my hunting license on me as well as all of my hunting gear (i.e. camo clothes, rifle with permit, etc.) and get stopped, can I be arrested for carrying my hunting knives? I am under the impression that as long as I am hunting and have my license to prove it, I am ok.

Ughhhhhh!