Assisted vs. Manual Opening

[flipe8]

A couple of reasons I'm not into AOs are that the two I had did have issues with opening(one new SOG and one used Kershaw) in that they both stuck to a 80-90% opening , but not fully open. The only way the SOG would fully open would be by loosening the pivot to the point of terrible blade play. The spring actually broke on the SOG after about a month as well, which brings me to my second reason for not liking them-another thing to break. Lastly, if you need to lock them in the closed-position in order to avoid accidental opening, the slight bit of speed you gain in the actual opening is pretty much negated. Simple is better for me. Also, how well do AOs work in cold, wet conditions? I'm willing to bet it doesn't take much to cause problems with the action.

 

[nygiantsfan3342]

I have a few AO knives that I really enjoy but prefer the simplicity of manual knives. I like being in complete control of the opening of the knife. Most of my AO's will not fully engage and lock 100% of the time. I carry them a lot but don't fully trust that they will stay closed in my pocket. They will likely never open up in my pocket but a tad bit of paranoia keeps me alert. Also, manuals are usually easier to close due to the lack of spring tension.

Which AOs are they?

I disagree on that last point. I can close my liner & Frame lock knives quickly and with one hand. I have yet to find a manual knife that I can close one-handed, other than a small Case.

I am also noticing a lot of "I don't trust this & that" about AOs. Is it because of what you have read here or has it happened personally?

It would be a shame not to use AO just because of what might happen. I have never had a problem with AO.

Edit: I posted this before reading flipes' gripes. Good example flipe

 

[nygiantsfan3342]

My question is: Aside from people with hand injuries or other dexterity problems, why would anyone prefer AO to manual?

Convenience, speed of deployment, cool, fun. The last two just haven't worn off yet, but if we didn't think knives were cool & fun, BladeForums wouldn't exist.

I guess this argument is like the old Manual Transmission versus Automatic Transmission in cars? How many of us drive Autos now?

 

[Knife Outlet]

I'm not sure why you think A/O is faster. It isn't for me. For me A/O just represents unnecessary complexity. That's why I don't use them personally. But, then, I've been in the knife business a long time and handle them pretty well. I'm not in any terrible rush to get one open, either, but I can open a one handed opener that is well balanced a little faster than I can open an A/O, even when the "safety" is already disabled. I don't use autos either for the same reason.

 

[Dog of War]

Two reasons other than legal concerns I prefer a non-AO knife such as an axis, frame lock or lockback over AO: reliability, and the fact that I can deploy a non-AO just as fast, if not faster.

 

[Hair]

Which AOs are they?

I disagree on that last point. I can close my liner & Frame lock knives quickly and with one hand. I have yet to find a manual knife that I can close one-handed, other than a small Case.

I am also noticing a lot of "I don't trust this & that" about AOs. Is it because of what you have read here or has it happened personally?

It would be a shame not to use AO just because of what might happen. I have never had a problem with AO.

Edit: I posted this before reading flipes' gripes. Good example flipe

-Most liner and framelock knives are manual knives. Slipjoints (like your Case) are just one kind of manual knife. A liner lock like a CRKT M-16 (for example) is a manual knife.

-I don't think anyone is saying AO fails often. But it is a fact that, all things equal, an AO knife has more parts to break and the AO mechanism is usually a weaker link than anything in a manual knife. It might take a year, or 10 years, or 30 years. But I don't like to buy knives knowing I will have to replace a spring/cam down the line. All folders will wear over time, but AO knives just have that many more wear items.

Convenience, speed of deployment, cool, fun. The last two just haven't worn off yet, but if we didn't think knives were cool & fun, BladeForums wouldn't exist.

I guess this argument is like the old Manual Transmission versus Automatic Transmission in cars? How many of us drive Autos now?

I don't see how an AO knife is more convenient, faster, more cool, or more fun. I am argueing that they are actually less convenient, slower, equally cool, and less fun.

However, my question was rhetorical. I know exactly why some people like AO knives. I have owned several of them. My question was not meant to insult people that like AO knives. It was meant as a counter to the question in the original post about why would anyone prefer a manual. Difference preferences make the knife world go 'round. But there isn't much reason to question why many people prefer manual knives to AO knives.

I drive a manual, by the way. I like higher performance, more control, and more fun driving.

 

[beezaur]

I've had a Kershaw come part way open in my pocket. That was pretty much the end of assisted knives for me.

I think after I graduated from my 20s I began to realize just how much I appreciated "idiot proof" equipment.

Scott

 

[stevekt]

Which AOs are they?

I disagree on that last point. I can close my liner & Frame lock knives quickly and with one hand. I have yet to find a manual knife that I can close one-handed, other than a small Case.

I am also noticing a lot of "I don't trust this & that" about AOs. Is it because of what you have read here or has it happened personally?

It would be a shame not to use AO just because of what might happen. I have never had a problem with AO.

Edit: I posted this before reading flipes' gripes. Good example flipe

I have a SOG Twitch 2 that needs it's pivot adjusted just right to fire and lock properly and keep the blade play down to a minimum. It is pretty annoying breaking out the torx wrenches and locktite going back and forth on pivot tension by a fraction of a degree just to get my knife to work properly. In fact I think Flipe and I traded posts on the same issue/same knife a while back.

I also have a Kershaw Scallion that has never needed any adjustment and will fire and lock with little or no problems. However, If I keep my finger in the flipper groove I can block the blade from fully locking. It took me a few minutes to figure out why the blade would not open fully, I was gripping the knife too hard. I also have a Flash 1 that will will fire and lock most of the time but not all of the time. The Flash 1 does not have a flipper so it requires a "push the thumbstud then get it out of the way quickly" action.

I think you misunderstood my last point. I meant "manual knife" as a non-AO or non-automatic knife. You stated you can close your liner locks and frame locks quickly with one hand, that is my point. My liner locks will close a lot easier because there is no spring tension trying to assist them open as in an AO knife. On the extreme end, I have a California legal 2" auto knife that requires quite a bit of effort to close because of the spring.

I said I don't fully trust my AO's to stay closed in my pocket. That is because they are under spring tension and could, while pocketed, be knocked up against a table, a wall, a chair just right so that they pop open. I've never had it happen to me but I understand the mechanics of the knife enough to see that it could happen. I also stated that I think it is highly unlikely that it will ever happen to me but it could so AO's get special attention if I carry them.

 

[Artfully Martial]

I don't think AO breaking is as big a deal as a lot of people think (I've had one AO failure)
1: If the AO does break, the knife still works fine as a manual
2: AO breaks while being closed, not opened--and it makes a snap noise when it breaks. Basically, if you don't already know it's broken and need your knife in a pinch, it'll AO the one final time for you.

Of course, if your complaint is that you want it to stay AO and getting a new spring would be a PITA well, I guess you're right there.

That said, as per flicking a knife closed, you can do that with a little practice on an Axis lock, compression lock....you can do it on stud locks too if you remove the AO. Pretty much any lock that doesn't require your fingers to be in the way. With MUCH practice, you can axis-flick closed liner and framelocks too. Obviously, you can't flick closed knives with spring tension on them.

The biggest advantage of AO is that it has a short learning curve. If you practice drawing your knife, an axis lock or compression lock can be at least as fast--but if you want to be really fast from the first time you open your knife, with no experience, the AO is an easy way to get there.

That said, the time is coming when we're not going to have to pick any more. There are all kinds of dual action autos out there already--open normally with the thumbstud, auto with the flipper. And more legally, we have the Cyclone, and hopefully more AOs that can be turned off and on.

 

[symphonyincminor]

Once the novelty wore off, it was back to manual opening knives for me. It didn't take very long, either. I prefer products & tools that are strong and have the fewest moving parts…”idiot proof,” as mentioned above.

I guess it's the same reason why I own mostly revolvers and pump shotguns instead of semi-auto's.

 

[nygiantsfan3342]

My point exactly. You feel one way, I feel the other. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong. I travel in business, and I like my automatic transmission because I can drive with one hand and eat/write/phone with the other without shifting. The FUN of driving, much like the fun of AO for you, has long since gone away for me...

Thanks for the input

 

[Hair]

I agree. I didn't mean to make it seem like I think AO was pointless, or that people that liked it are wrong, or stupid.

I really don't *dislike* AO. It just isn't my preference.

 

[nygiantsfan3342]

I agree. I didn't mean to make it seem like I think AO was pointless, or that people that liked it are wrong, or stupid.

I really don't *dislike* AO. It just isn't my preference.

No worries mate, I am stupid!

I must be if I was crazy enough to start a thread like this! Like me living in Dallas and LOVING the NYGiants!:thumbup:

 

[A druid]

manual for me all the way I don't need extra machinery to gum up the works or cause me legal trouble.if you don't have a spare second.you should be spending your time backing up.may be kicking your attacker and the ball.but not fumbling with your pocket knife.if you think about it. Good feet distance, time to to produce what at this point would clearly be deemed a weapon, you're going to use one in this situation.the last thing I want to dois be fumbling with my pocket knife, while I'm being stabbed in the throat.have the attacker get off on self-defense grounds because I pulled a knife.

 

[nygiantsfan3342]

manual for me all the way I don't need extra machinery to gum up the works or cause me legal trouble.if you don't have a spare second.you should be spending your time backing up.may be kicking your attacker and the ball.but not fumbling with your pocket knife.if you think about it. Good feet distance, time to to produce what at this point would clearly be deemed a weapon, you're going to use one in this situation.the last thing I want to dois be fumbling with my pocket knife, while I'm being stabbed in the throat.have the attacker get off on self-defense grounds because I pulled a knife.

First of all, learn correct punctuation. Periods are not commas.

Second, I mentioned in the first post of this thread that I am disregarding the LEGALITY issues for now. I am going to use my concealed pistol, not my knife, for protection. I use my knife as a tool. Knife laws are usually the judgement/interpretation of the arresting officer or presiding judge anyway, so let's not argue among ourselves about the law.

 

[stevengregory]

Here's something to consider, that I don't think has been mentioned yet. With an AO knife, in order for it to be safe in your pocket you need to engage the little safety device on it. That means that when you pull it out of your pocket to open it you need to take the time to DISengage the safety before you can flick it open. This does two things; it creates an extra step in knife deployment and it adds time to opening, which negates the speed effect of the AO device. So, why have the spring at all? A regular one hand opener with a thumb lug is practically as fast as a switch-blade, let alone an AO, so IMO, nothing is gained with the spring assist, except needless complication and potential injury.

 

[sa_95616]

Wow, I did not know that in order to post replies you needed correct punctuation,or else you would be called out on it.I would think giving an honest response would be enough.
Anyway's, I like both manual openers and A/O's.Just depends what mood im in for that paticular day.Personally I dont think that A/O's open any faster than manuals do.If it werent for the fact of peaple liking different style's and designs of knives,it would be extremely boring for us as knife knuts to have fun collecting

 

[beezaur]

Wow, I did not know that in order to post replies you needed correct punctuation,or else you would be called out on it. . . .
Anyway's . . . A/O's . . . different style's and designs . . .

Ahem . . . About those apostrophes . . .

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[nygiantsfan3342]

Here's something to consider, that I don't think has been mentioned yet. With an AO knife, in order for it to be safe in your pocket you need to engage the little safety device on it. That means that when you pull it out of your pocket to open it you need to take the time to DISengage the safety before you can flick it open. This does two things; it creates an extra step in knife deployment and it adds time to opening, which negates the speed effect of the AO device. So, why have the spring at all? A regular one hand opener with a thumb lug is practically as fast as a switch-blade, let alone an AO, so IMO, nothing is gained with the spring assist, except needless complication and potential injury.

You are assuming that the safety Has to be engaged. I never switch my safeties on, so when I pull my knife out, I can open it at the same time. I keep my knife clipped to my pocket, tip up, blade against the edge of the pocket. Therefore, the blade can't open accidentally. But I agree, if you have to disengage the AO safety, it wouldn't be any faster.

NEXT!

 

[nygiantsfan3342]

Wow, I did not know that in order to post replies you needed correct punctuation,or else you would be called out on it.I would think giving an honest response would be enough.

When poor grammar or punctuation interfere with the clarity or comprehension of a post, it makes it VERY hard to understand the person. Not trying to offend anyone.