Assisted vs. Manual Opening

[stevengregory]

You are assuming that the safety Has to be engaged. I never switch my safeties on, so when I pull my knife out, I can open it at the same time. I keep my knife clipped to my pocket, tip up, blade against the edge of the pocket. Therefore, the blade can't open accidentally. But I agree, if you have to disengage the AO safety, it wouldn't be any faster.

NEXT!

Ahhh! Well, all I can say is that this is a problem for me, then. I personally don't feel safe with an unsafetied AO, so I don't use them. Ya know, life's crazy, s**t happens. If your method works for you that's all that matters.

Cheers!

 

[Artfully Martial]

Some AOs are different than others. I could theoretically see the Bump opening in my jeans, but the Avalanche is MUCH *less* likely to open in my pocket than many of my manuals. It takes a LOT of force to defeat that detent, and it has to be at a precise 45 degree angle or it won't budge. It has no safety, and honestly, that's just the way I like it.

 

[Reswob]

Here's something to consider, that I don't think has been mentioned yet. With an AO knife, in order for it to be safe in your pocket you need to engage the little safety device on it. That means that when you pull it out of your pocket to open it you need to take the time to DISengage the safety before you can flick it open. This does two things; it creates an extra step in knife deployment and it adds time to opening, which negates the speed effect of the AO device. So, why have the spring at all? A regular one hand opener with a thumb lug is practically as fast as a switch-blade, let alone an AO, so IMO, nothing is gained with the spring assist, except needless complication and potential injury.

I don't know about any other company's assisted openers, but on my Kershaw Blur, the torsion bar actually works to keep the knife closed in the closed postion. There isn't even a safety on the knife, and I certainly wouldn't engage it if there were.

Someone mentioned having to "press the thumb stud and quickly get out of the way" for fear of cutting your thumb upon the knife opening. I've learned to only push the top of the stud forward and my thumb never comes into contact with the opening blade. And even before I figured that out (or when opening left handed), I never cut myself, and can't see how anyone would - everyone take your knife out, and slowly pull the blade open with one hand while pushing down on the blade with your thumb just behind the stud. Anyone cut themselves? Didn't think so.

Others said they don't like AO because it will break. OK, eventually the AO mechanism will probably wear out. But probably not for a very long time - provided you don't play with it constantly (the same would be said about a switchblade). And even when it does you still have a perfectly good manual knife if you don't replace the spring.

From the responses here, it seems like most people who don't like AO either have baseless fears of the knife accidentally opening in their pocket, or think they're going to break and become useless, or simply haven't handled the right Assisted Opener yet (if you don't like a particular knife, then you're not going to like it, AO or not). Me, I love AO, but wouldn't buy a knife simply because it's assisted. In fact, aside from my Blur, not much else in the Kershaw/Ken Onion line really appeals to me (most are too small, too wierd, or too expensive), and there are other knives in my EDC rotation, namely a Benchmade Resistor and a Spyderco Native. The Native opens pretty slow comparitively, but I still like it. Given the choice of the same knife in AO or manual though I would pick AO every time.

 

[Tonie Nichols]

I have handled a few AO's, including one of the Ken Onion original customs, but have never owned one and certainly don't plan to purchase one (if however I should receive one as a present...): ).

I'm not interested in them because in the style of defensive knife that I've been trained in the kinetic opening is much faster (and less complicated) and the style of folder I carry doesn't come in AO.

For utility purposes there is no need for the speed of an AO, it's a novelty. Actually, the Sheffield folding utility knife I carry is a bit of an AO. The cam of the blade actually will open the knife without pushing it all the way. With just a little more push on the opening it gets to the break point of the cam and as the momentum carries it ever so slightly past that point, the cam takes over and does the rest snapping it open.

 

[bh49]

I handled just one Kershaw's AO and I was not impressed.
I do not care about fast deployment, but if I would I would get waved Endura or Emerson. I think that AO less safe and not as reliable as manual knives. Also it is adding cost and I would rather pay for materials and workmanship than for extra feature, which I do not need.

 

[Boink]

AO's I have tried seemed somewhat dangerous, because the speed safe mechanism wasn't particularly speedy. There was a slight lag and my thumb could easily wind up on the blade somehow.

 

[Kestrel64]

I have a nice blend of A/O and manuals...I really like both, provided the manual is subject to fast one hand opening. My Kershaw Seagal, SOG Pentagon Elite, Benchmade Monochrome...they are all as fast or faster than A/O. My Leeks, Heat, and other assisted openers are great fun though...nothing like that knife almost coming to life in your hand with barely a flick of a fingertip. If it sounds like I am on the fence...I think I might be; at one time, I would have preferred A/O's hands down...but now as my collection is growing, I don't think I prefer one over the other...just like a well made knife.

 

[TriumphSM]

I'm just starting to build an assortment of knives, but I like the AO of the Kershaw Cyclone I recently bought. However, I have some nerve damage in the muscles in parts my right hand, so I don't have as much dexterity as I used to. The muscle between my thumb and forefinger had atrophied to the point it was almost gone because of a pinched nerve in my elbow. Since then I've had an operation to move the nerve, and a big portion of the muscle has returned thanks to physical therapy, but it's still not 100% and probably won't ever be. So in my case I think AO is a useful feature, especially in a larger knife like the Cyclone. My Lone Wolf T1 is much easier to open manually than the Cyclone is with the AO switch in off.

 

[hardheart]

I don't know about any other company's assisted openers, but on my Kershaw Blur, the torsion bar actually works to keep the knife closed in the closed postion. There isn't even a safety on the knife, and I certainly wouldn't engage it if there were.

Kershaws AOs with flippers all have safeties.

Someone mentioned having to "press the thumb stud and quickly get out of the way" for fear of cutting your thumb upon the knife opening. I've learned to only push the top of the stud forward and my thumb never comes into contact with the opening blade. And even before I figured that out (or when opening left handed), I never cut myself, and can't see how anyone would - everyone take your knife out, and slowly pull the blade open with one hand while pushing down on the blade with your thumb just behind the stud. Anyone cut themselves? Didn't think so.

Slowly opening the blade doesn't recreate at all what happens when you open an AO. I and others have cut themselves because you typically apply a down/forward force with the thumb to open a manual. Doing this with an AO moves your thumb right into the edge if the mechanism has any speed to it-the blade is open before you stop pushing with your thumb. Once you learn how to open an AO, it's not a problem. But Kershaws again-non-flipper models all came with little plastic guards on the edge of the blade to prevent new users from opening up their thumbs. I mentioned how I saw a guy do this just recently.

Others said they don't like AO because it will break. OK, eventually the AO mechanism will probably wear out. But probably not for a very long time - provided you don't play with it constantly (the same would be said about a switchblade). And even when it does you still have a perfectly good manual knife if you don't replace the spring.

Perfectly good except for the rattle of the broken spring still inside the handle. There is no minimum amount of time a spring will last either, bad batches have come out and been discussed here before.

From the responses here, it seems like most people who don't like AO either have baseless fears of the knife accidentally opening in their pocket, or think they're going to break and become useless, or simply haven't handled the right Assisted Opener yet (if you don't like a particular knife, then you're not going to like it, AO or not). Me, I love AO, but wouldn't buy a knife simply because it's assisted. In fact, aside from my Blur, not much else in the Kershaw/Ken Onion line really appeals to me (most are too small, too wierd, or too expensive), and there are other knives in my EDC rotation, namely a Benchmade Resistor and a Spyderco Native. The Native opens pretty slow comparitively, but I still like it. Given the choice of the same knife in AO or manual though I would pick AO every time.

I don't think any of it is baseless. People have had them open in pocket, and they have had springs break after a short period of time.

 

[DavidW3]

Kershaws AOs with flippers all have safeties.

Bump doesn't have safety and I think it should. Its flipper is also a bit too big and so it's more likely to be accidentally opened than those with smaller flipper.

Once you learn how to open an AO, it's not a problem.

True that. Think shooting a marble, not pushing the thumb stud.

People have had them open in pocket...

Happened twice to me. First time it was the Chive and the second time it was the Bump ( and hence my comment above). Still carry Leek the most (l see it more as a gentleman knife).

 

[Artfully Martial]

AOs can be perfectly safe, but you have to make a few adjustments.

First, if at all possible, carry it in your watch pocket instead of the normal pocket. There's not enough space in a watch pocket for the knife to open any significant amount, and in the case of my specific jeans, not at all--I've tried pushing the flipper whilst it is in my pocket to make sure and it won't come out even a mm. Of course, this result won't be exactly thet same for everyone. I cut out a few of the stitches at the bottom of the watch pocket so I can fit the larger knives in there, and it just so happens that the very small space of the hole I'm effective cutting and a tip down knife, it's very effective at preventing balde motion. But even minus this mod...

As per hurting yourself whilst opening the knife. Flippers solve that problem entirely. But a little practice on the thumbstud and you'll do fine also. It's our experience as manual users, going into a new AO, that sets up for failure with the thumbstud. A new user probably wouldn't have any problems getting used to it, but us, we've used thumbstuds and spyderholes for years, and it sets us up for the improper use of the stud in the AO world.

The thing is, you're flicking the knife out of the detent, not gently pushing it. You have to get your angle just right on a good AO, like my avalanche, or the detent will be too strong. It took me a little practice to overcome my manual thumbstud habits, but in two days time, it was second nature, and no worries about cutting myself.

I prefer my AOs, as with other knives, without safeties. They defeat the purpose of being AO. Might be useful for traveling though.

As per spring life, I've had such a bad spring, but the other two have taken all sorts of abuse. One negative I haven't imagined here yet is that the AO in the Bump is rattling. Everything works fantastic, it's just if I shake it hard (not just normal use) there's a clear rattling...

 

[dalefuller]

I'm kinda late comin' to this thread, but for me, simple is better so I stick with one-handed manual openers. In the 50+ years that I've carried a knife, some of those have been switchblades, one was (is) an AO, but most have been manual. I have also spilled lots of "stuff" on my knives, dropped them in mud, snow, and dirt, taken them into the ocean with me, etc. I just don't trust anything automatic to work dependably time after time under those conditions and I don't want to carry anything that I can't abuse if necessary and still have it work.

The AO that I currently have stays in the map pocket of my car so I can use it with one hand while I'm driving, but it doesn't get any hard use there so I'm happy to have it.

 

[DGG]

Anyone who has read a Kershaw thread lately knows that I love kershaw Knives. I especially love the Speedsafe mechanism and the convenience it offers. My question is, why would anyone prefer a manual-open knife to an Assisted Opening one?

I know that AO knives open up legality issues, but I want to ignore that for now. Unless there is a Supreme Court Justice on the Blade Forums right now, lets let the laws remain up for interpretation. I just want to know why someone would prefer to open a blade slower or with two hands. THIS SHOULD NOT BECOME AN ARGUMENT! I don't want to hear Kershaw Bashing or a biased OPINION.

I truly am curious why AO knives have such a hot/cold following.

Thanks!

There have been "assisted" opening knives around for years, just maybe not defined as AO like we do today. I have one-hand opening Spydercos and Gerber Pauls going back almost 40 years. They don't have any "springs" because they don't need them.

I never got into butterfly knives but know of folks who are very fast opening them using nothing but an little arm swing.

I like the Kershaw design but for real fast opening get a Protech Runt model, my EDC. It is the fastest opening knife there is anywhere (short of a fixed blade).

Here is a "Video Knife" link to see it in action. Gotta love the thwacking sound when it opens!

http://videoknife.com/auto-protech-runtgold.html

 

[cdf]

To me they are just a novelty , and added breakable small parts . I guess I like simple and bulletproof myself .

Chris

 

[taylorsf]

I have carried a CQC7 for over 10 years, in original size, original size LH, and also the larger size. I can pull it out either hand, either grip, and flick it open. It has never come open by accident on me.

I have tried a few autos, high quality and with safeties. On a couple of occasions the knife was open when I did not want it to be. This includes belt clipped, pocket clipped, on kit, etc. the only way I have not had one at some point be open on me is in a case/sheath, which ends up making it slower than my manuals.

If you like autos, go for it.
some of us have them, but are plenty quick one handed with our manuals and use those.

 

[darkestthicket]

I can open a strider just as fast as most can open an auto assisted knife, and if i want my knife to open faster I have a few microtech otf's.

I for one dont get the auto assisted opening feature as a requirement for a knife.

 

[Blur108]

I am fairly new to knives but the Leek Speedsafe is the one that started it all followed by the Tac Blur then the Cyclone. I like the cool factor of the AO don't really care if its a manual or AO. I have other manual knives too that I like to carry (Grip, Native, Schrade and Byrd). To me the fastest manual knife that I have is the Grip but not as fast as the Speedsafe. IMHO. I carry my knife for cutting things up so I don't really need to be super fast in the draw.

 

[Daniel Dorn]

I like the coolness factor of AOs. I own 3 AO knives, including two Kershaws, and the Camillus CUDA Dominator.

If you want to talk about reliability, you need to take apart the Dominator and look at it. Being a frame lock, and the assist mechanism being pretty much part of the handle, there are fewer moving parts than most other knives out there. That thing will outlast most anything. Some may think the spring is a little too strong, as stated above, but I find it just right. The distance needed to travel to engage the assist (DDR's ROBO mechanism) and the detent right at that critical point nearly negate the possibility of an accidental opening. This is one knife that will outlive me.

I also tend to like autos, including Double Action like MT LCC D/A, or OTF like the Microtech Scarab, as well as side openers like Protech makes. Gadget factor plays a big part in my knife buying, but I won't buy anything that doesn't hold it's own on a practical level. Of course one persons view of practical will vary from another's...

Daniel

To each his own.