ATS-43 visible grain?

R

RI_Shooter

Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Messages
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I did a Sheffield style Bowie-fighter out of ATS-34. I've used ATS a
number of times over the years when it was requested. I've noticed before
that it sometimes has a visible grain even when brushed out, but this
one is very visible under an incandescent light.

I first noticed it when I finished it to 240 grit before heat treat. I
briefly discussed it with Mr. Bos. When it came back from treat he had
done his usual great job with everything dead straight and minimum
surface change.

Now I've started the polish. I rubbed it out 240,320,400 so far. The
steel "feels" perfectly normal, but the grain is highly visible. It's clearly
not inclusions or imperfections, just a very clear swirly grain pattern.
Actually looks great, just more obvious than usual.

Has anyone else experienced this?
 
PICS... WE NEED PICS! I'm guessing it's probably carbide banding. Although I'm no expert on stainless. Does it look like this?
damascus_steel_closeup_sm.JPG



Jason
 
I never seen swirls, but I seen a grain structure that seems to run parallel to the edge and only after HT. I did not think it was an imperfection in the steel. Sometimes I thought it was something I did in HT.
Jason
 
Doubt it's carbide banding. ATS-34 and even 154CM sometimes get clouds and grain. The steel is not perfect at all.
 
CPM154 should not have that problem .154CM is made differently therefore may have some segregation [banding] visible to the eye.
 
It is no where near as obvious as is Jason's picture. More like Acrid Saint posted.
There is no cloudiness, just tiny, tight little regular swirls. They are not obvious under
daylighlight or fluroescent light, but jump right out at you under an incandescent bulb.

I don't think it has anything to do with heat treat. Paul Bos does great work, and
in any case it was there about the same both before and after heat treat. I've
occasionally noticed the same thing in A-2, just not as pronounced.

Frankly, I don't know how to post a picture, but I don't think it would make a
difference. I don't think this would photograph well with anything I have.
 
Last edited:
mete said:
CPM154 should not have that problem .154CM is made differently therefore may have some segregation [banding] visible to the eye.
Click to expand...

I think I should clarify - I was only talking about 154CM, not the CPM version.
 
I quit using ATS-34 because of this. CPM154 doesn't have this problem.
You can minimize the 'grain' by hand rubbing with wet or dry paper and WD-40.
 
Brett, I usually rub out the blades dry, but I'll try with the WD-40 if you think it
might help. Do I need to go back down to 220 or is it enough to rub it out again
with the 400 lubricated?
 
I use ATS-34 and have seen various levels of the graining. I was told the graining comes from whether the steel used was cold rolled or hot. Anyone else heard anything along these lines?
 
No need to go back to 220. Rub with 400 wet or dry and WD-40, and it should come out looking good, with no grain showing. After this, you can go finer if you want (keep using the WD-40) or even buff to a mirror finish. I usually went to 600 before buffing. Buff lightly, or the grain will come back up.

I'd love to give credit to the BF member who clued me in to this technique a couple of years ago, but I can't remember who it was!:(
 
I just started working with ATS-34 as well. I too noticed the grain patterns in the steel both before and after heat treat. At this point, at 220 grit, they are very visible but hopefully it will blend in a little bit with a higher finish. There was grain visible even when the steel was an uncut bar. I thought grinding would get rid of it but it was there throughout the steel even after tapering the tang and the main bevel grinds. I assumed it was just something you had to deal with when using that type of steel.
 
I wonder if the Hitachi rep was a metallurgist ?? All steel starts out by hot rolling .They might do a final cold roll for surface and dimensional control. That shouldn't cause that problem.
In any case I encourage you to use CPM154 or the European equivalent RWL-34. You'll like it better as will your customer !
 
the problem is...........I'm not:o

I remember him mentioning something being elongated due to the rolling process. I wish I could say exactly, but I think my mind glazed over for second
 
I'm not a METE Mete but I have seen a difference between hot and cold rolled ATS34. Cold rolled has the odd clouds/grain/swirls stuff more often than hot rolled. I had one too many blades show up with goofy looks to the steel in ATS34 and quit using it a long time ago. Like Butch, I've also seen this stuff in 154cm but a lot less often. I have never seen it in CPM154 which is my steel of choice. CPM154 is exceptionally clean and consistent in appearance and takes an amazing, deep polish. It is worth the extra $4 or $5 a knife blank.
 
The graining is due to the original segregation from solidification.I don't know why it would be more so when cold rolled and more in ATS-34 than 154CM. Cold rolling doesn't in itself cause segregation.The CPM process eliminates the segregation.
 
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