ATS34=fragile 440V=soft M2=hype: Steel Gossip

By the way, Joe (and just to dredge this all the way back up to the top
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), while I haven't done anything near formal testing with my ATS-55 blades against Gin-1 or ATS-34, after using all three types for a few years, the ATS-55 seems to be closer to ATS-34 than Gin-1. The knives I've used are: Wegner in ATS-34, Rookie and Standard in ATS-55, and Native and Endura in Gin-1. So at least they are all from Spyderco.

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The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. - Ambrose Bierce
Most dog owners are at length able to teach themselves to obey their dog. - Robert Morley

iktomi
 
This thread has turned into one of the most iformative ones that I have read in a long time. It is great that so many people with knowledge pertaining to the issue have taken the time to add to the discussion.

Of the steels you mentioned, I have experience with a few and like them all. I did not find my ATS-34 Spyderco Military to be brittle at all. It Cut wire and hit more than a few staples and never chipped. I also never found a problem with My Spyderco Starmate. The CPM 440V blade seems to stand up to anything that I put it through. My Buck Strider BG-42 has done all that has been asked of it without a single problem.

All of the knives mentioned above have held an edge well and have not been hard to sharpen. They have not broken or chipped and have never suffered from corrosion problems. This is about all I can ask of my knives.

I Think that all the knives that you mentioned are good and you should make your decision based on which one does more of what you need, has the looks you want and the price you want to pay.

Sorry I don't know enough about the knives you are looking at to give you my opinion of their relative merits.

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Keith

AKTI Member #A001338
 
This has been an excellent discussion. I have already stayed up way passed my bed time. Thanks to all for their input.
My steels are limited mostly to the carbon steels and 52100. I try to continually learn as much as I can from the others as well. As one said, pick a knife you like to use and use it. If it doesn't hold up to your expectations, get another. If it is better than the last one, trade the old one off. Sometimes it takes years to get the one you want to keep.
I had sharpened a little yellow handled case trapper for a friend for years and he bought himself a new lock back and gave me his trapper. I don't think he ever found another knife as good as the one he gave me. Just don't be impatient, it takes time.

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Ray Kirk
http://www.tah-usa.net/raker
 
What fun. How the heck do you guys decide when you go to the buffet table?

I found the perfect knife steel. It's lighter than aluminum, more corrosion resistant than glass, sharper than a brain surgeon's scalpel, and I can mold it into shape with my fingers.

The only thing is that the alien who gave it to me made me promise to furnish a thousand page tome of attributes to each user.

And they can only cut hemp rope with it, otherwise, the guarantee is voided...

Keep grinning,

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Read, Study, Learn, Grow
-DO-
Jay
www.gilanet.com/JayFisher/index.htm
 
I am with Keith, this is a great thread. I have learned alot.

From my experience, which I feel is very limited compared to the cutlerati (i.e., knife literati) that have contributed, including Joe, RJ, Steve, Cliff but not Walt (
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OK, Walt too
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) and others, I have concluded that ATS-34 seems to vary more greatly due to heat treat than other knife steels. I have had an older Benchmade AFCK and a REKAT Pioneer chip under light usage and tried to chip thinned-out BM710 without success.

Does, say BG-42, vary as much based on heat treat as ATS-34 and it just hasn't seen the attention that ATS-34 has, or is ATS-34 just a difficult steel to temper?

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Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com
AKTI Member A000847
 
Since ATS-34 is so widely used, I would guess that there is a very wide range of heat treat quality to be found in terms of grain structure. The ultimate heat treat for ATS-34 is careful time and temperature control on the hardening cycle followed by cryogenic quench, and three stress relieving temper cycles. A lot of work. And who knows what heat treat might get used in the factories? Blade blanks heated bright red during machine grinding and fan cooled for a hardening process anyone? Huge batches in a single tempering cycle? Who knows. I don't. The factories are not telling.

As far as BG-42 goes, it requires a fairly complicated and accurately controlled heat treatment, much more so than ATS-34. The fact that most BG-42 blades are hand mades would probably account for the better grain structure most people find with it, as a hand maker who was bothering with BG-42 is probably having it heat treated properly.

But it is all just steel. I am very happy with my 440C blades (heat treated by Barry Dawson, who is probably the dalai lama of heat treating 440C).
 
Hi friends, it's a GREAT discussion, I am very pleased to hear all your wisdom.
I'm just asking for one favor:
HRc measurement is a "relatively coarse" indentation method.
Please do NOT deduce too much from it. It tells you just a part of the truth.
Happy sharpening
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Ted
 
CDFleischer; your observations are probably correct. Les de Asis told me that Benchmade had problems a few years ago with thumb studs cracking ATS-34 blades. They altered the heat treat so that the steel was less brittle and softer.

Hope this helps, Walt
 
Just want to say thanks for what I perceive to be the most enlightening discussion of steel and how to make it work for us that I've read.

Am particularly grateful for the link to the Buck testing. That too was quite informative.

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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
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