attempting to make your own paper wheels could be dangerous or deadly

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the same goes for you theonew like i told shecky. drop it, i'm not going back and forth with you either.
 
is saving some money worth the loss of an eye or even death?
You should be wearing safety goggles, so all you have to worry about is death :)
 
Gentlemen,

I think theonew sums it up correctly. However, locking the other thread and putting a warning is good enough. If people wants to try, they know it's risky and takes full responsibility of using it.

As I mentioned on another thread, people must be taught to retrospect and take responsibility of their own action. After judging all the factors (safety, saving cost vs potential injury, etc.), each must make their own judgement.

Sometimes it's not only money. It's the availability of the product. Simple example: people has been saying using a mousepad and a high grid paper abrasive can produce a nice convex edge. What if in my place I can't even find one? I have to resolve to other means. So for home made wheel, the inherent risk is there, more than a proper factory made (but who to say the maker is reputable enough not to cheat in the material / process?), and anyone who wants to use it takes responsibility.

Let's close this discussion.
 
chris, i will answer your question. the whole issue is safety. did you see the picture posted here in this thread and take a CLOSE look? the paper wheels come with a lifetime guarantee. if anything happens to the wheels, they will gladly replace them. they ship anywhere. they are more affordable than a doctor bill or funeral. i have talked many times to mike and he is not the kind of guy who would rip anyone off in the materials. every wheel is tested to be true and smooth running. the whole idea of the wheels is to eliminate stropping with a leather belt so why make something that doesnt even come close to doing what the real deal does and requires going to a strop? its an unnecessary step thats a waste of time so why bother making something dangerous that doesnt even come close to giving you the same results?
 
I know Richard gets nothing from the sale of the wheels. This is a safety issue, not a personal pi$$ing contest. I'd have thought Spark's input would have put this to bed.
 
richard j said:
a suggestion has been posted to make your own paper wheels. this is very dangerous and could even be deadly and never should have been suggested. the forces built up in any spinning object increase with diamater. this can be demonstrated by spinning a ball on a string in a circle around you. the ball gets heavier as it gets farther away from you. the same thing applies to anything spinning and if by chance a piece of cardboard comes loose it becomes a projectile. is saving some money worth the loss of an eye or even death? it only takes once for an accident to happen and its not worth the risk.
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Absolutely correct, Richard.

Angular momentum increases with the speed of the spinning object, the mass of that object, and with the distance of the object from the center of rotation. Each contributes linearly to the total angular momentum.

Since angular momentum is a fundamental physical property that obeys a 'conservation law,' an object's angular momentum can only be changed by the application of force.

I've been involved with the development and test of objects called Control Moment Gyros for decades. We use them to store energy and angular momentum for later use. Because we'd like to store quite a bit of both, the gyros or CMGs are extremely dangerous objects. We contain them within evacuated, high-tech casings ... and treat them with the utmost respect.

Casings very seldom fail. However, I've seen bent, bulged, and badly damaged casings due entirely to internal rotor failure (the rotor is the spinning object central to the gyro). Opening the casing, what I usually find depends on the material used to make the gyro. If it was metal, I find jagged filaments and tiny shards, sometimes scorched from the effects of friction. If it was ceramic or carbon fiber, I only find dust.

What does this mean to normal folks? Spinning objects like the paper wheels mentioned by Richard J contain more angular momentum and energy than you realize. A carelessly made wheel, even if it's only made of paper, can very easily shred and cause more damage than you might think -- especially if a minute tear or flaw is present in the wheel before it spins up. Ever had a nice, deep paper cut? And that happened from passing a paper 'edge' across your flesh at low speed. I wonder what it would feel like to experience a paper cut that penetrated to the bone ... or deeper?

Be careful out there, folks! ;)
 
THANK YOU VERY MUCH OLDPHYSICS. the manufactured wheels are made in a way that there is no way for them to come apart in chunks. they are all tested before leaving the factory to make sure they are safe to run at the suggested speed. i talked to spark and asked if he had a problem with me telling members about the wheels and if i should stop. he said he had no problem with the manufactured wheels. i think my 17 years of using the wheels without any accidents says a lot about the safety of the paper wheels. i still have both eyes and all 10 fingers. if spark sold the wheels, which i hope he does start carrying them, i would still tell members about them only that spark sells them instead.
 
OldPhysics said:
Angular momentum increases with the speed of the spinning object, the mass of that object, and with the distance of the object from the center of rotation. Each contributes linearly to the total angular momentum.
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The corrugated paper wheels are the same diameter, running on the same motor (same speed), and are of a lesser mass. The real threat is the object being worked on getting caught and striking the person working. When this cardboard is shown to be more dangerous than flap, wire, felt, spiral stitched, loose, or any other wheel I have used over the last twenty years, then I 'll be more concerned over them than something else. Whether or not they are balanced becomes apparent within a second, well before compound is applied, and nowhere near when someone would be prepared to press a blade against them.
 
Lets not mistake the initial year of membership here with actual experience. Richard and some others here have been sharpening knives for almost twenty years or even more. Also, never do anything yourself that you can pay somebody else to do for you. If you need a drill and you don't have one does it make sense to instead get a firearm and shoot a hole through something? Mostly likely not.

If someone wants to make homemade corrugated cardboard wheels as depicted in this thread than knock yourself out. In my opinion it runs along the same line on whether or not you want to wear a seat belt while driving.

BTW, the Darwin Awards are there for a reason other than being stupid as well as funny. The underlying message being to use a little common sense. Life and limb is too short as it is. But we all make our own decisions. Many of the entries in the DA are for people that either were too lazy to do something right, didn't have enough sense to do something right, were doing something they knew they shouldn't have been doing, or trying to save a buck and do something themselves, which they shouldn't have been doing. In all cases, it cost them dearly and most of all it didn't have to happen to begin with.

With that in mind, Richard's case should have been duly noted and dissenting opinions read with a grain of salt.

Everybody, have a great weekend and Thanksgiving. And be careful out there. There are a lot of drunks on the road, there was more Americans murdered in Chicago this year than KIA in Iraq, and influenza kills as many people each year as automobile accidents.
 
Discussion is more than good. I am glad that we can do this. General consenses seems to be that some things are better off bought, from places that exibit quality control, rather than the do it yourself approach. If anyone thinks otherwise, please remember Darwin, and proceed at your own risk. There has to be some selection in the evolution process, and some are just not supposed to survive.
 
BTW, I hold NO disrespect against siguy, ar any other postwers here. I just disagree with this idea of "doing it yourself" to the point of saying so in the manner that I have. Please take notice that Spark has locked the other thread, and why.

Matt
 
Considering the low mass of a cardboard wheel, I'd say that the risk is low as well. And the design looks stable. Not sure what all the fuss is about. Cardboard is stronger than you'd think.
 
Richard makes a good point. Paper wheels account for a lot of deaths in the US. Guys, please be careful and don't try to make your own.
 
Culpeper said:
Lets not mistake the initial year of membership here with actual experience. Richard and some others here have been sharpening knives for almost twenty years or even more. Also, never do anything yourself that you can pay somebody else to do for you. If you need a drill and you don't have one does it make sense to instead get a firearm and shoot a hole through something? Mostly likely not.
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First of all, you have no idea what my, or anybody else's experience is. Second, your advice about paying others to do your work is irrelevant. Third, your example is too dripping with hysterics to be taken seriously.

Culpeper said:
If someone wants to make homemade corrugated cardboard wheels as depicted in this thread than knock yourself out. In my opinion it runs along the same line on whether or not you want to wear a seat belt while driving.

BTW, the Darwin Awards are there for a reason other than being stupid as well as funny. The underlying message being to use a little common sense.
Click to expand...

Siguy's original post showed a reasonable amount of common sense.

Culpeper said:
With that in mind, Richard's case should have been duly noted and dissenting opinions read with a grain of salt.
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Richard hasn't really made a case. He simply said bad things can happen, refused to further defend his position, and threatened to close the thread, referring to Spark's judgment. But Spark really didn't make a case, either. He closed discussion on the other thread, something entirely different, citing a different potential (and entirely reasonable) danger, grabbing the blade, than the one Richard warned of. A potential danger which Richard played down, by saying it's never happened to him.

Interestingly, the danger cited by Spark still exists with the cardboard wheels richard j likes to plug.

I've made two points. One, bad things can happen with any high speed power tool. Two, the risk involved with siguy's device has been overstated. Does Richard or any of his supporters actually want to discuss these points?
 
The latest Gallup poll indicates that
- 73% of Americans believe paper wheels to be dangerous, when set to spinning in excess of 1700 rpm;
- 61% believe that homemade paper wheels are a dnager to their friends and loved ones;
- 16% have had a close friend or family member killed or maimed by paper wheels that disintegrated at speeds in excess of 1701 rpm;
- less than .001% report similar fatalities or injuries when the rpm of the paper wheel is held to 1700 rpm and under;
- 92% of all Americans fear that paper wheels, especially homemade ones (or DIY), will touch them or someone close to them in the coming year;

These alarming statistics, in stark contrast to poll statistics taken just one year ago, may prompt the new Administration to push for harsher laws and more regulation in the manufacture and distribution of paper wheels for knife sharpeners and other shop workers. Some say these statistics could lead the Government to ban the possession, sale, or even use of any homemade paper wheel. Other critics suggest that the Government may choose to federalize the paper wheel industry in order to more closely monitor any regulations imposed, and further to increase pressure and enhance prosecution of "DIY" paper-wheel-makers.

Radio talk show hosts fear a "fairness doctrine" that would limit homemade paper wheel manufacture to the same number of regulated manufacturers. They say this violates their 23rd AMendment rights.

"Keep paper wheel in use in proper perspective", says Congressman Les Sharp. "don;t get out there, gluing all this stuff up, and spinning it around and around and around and around, again and again, and again, and then hurt somebody. Especially if alcohol is involved. People just can;t go around acting dumb and expect their relatives to live, and such. Use you head, man!"
 
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