ATTN: Customers of CFKAT and Mad Dog Knives

I've never dealt with Earl, but one thing I've learned here at BF is to trust the people and their opinions. Not solely rely on them, but consider all the wisdom and advice that they give.

Earl, let God be with you. I know that he's watching over you and just be patient and humble. Those are your two greatest stregths.

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-Humpty

Proverbs 23:2

AKTI Member # A000984

 
After reading this thread I have determined that I will never do any business with that McClung fellow. I don't care if he makes knives out of gold and sells them for a nickel each.
Not since Bill Clinton was elected have I seen such lack of character so publicly displayed.

--Mike L.
 
You know, I don't know if it is just because I read this forum to much more, and have/have gotten a biased opinion, or what. But, it does seem that trouble follows where ever MD walks. Doesn't it.

I probably never would have bought a knife from him/them, simply because of cost. However, I know now that I wouldn't buy one from him for any reason. Like someone said, even if he was making them of talonite (not gold. talonite holds a better edge) and selling them for a nickel.

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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
St. Mary's County, Republik of Marilundt

 
Well, I don't know what is going on between MD and Earl. If someone else does, I'd like to know.

I have a deposit for a knife with Earl. I don't know what has happened so I really have no way of forming an informed opinion.

It does seem to me, however, that MD is trying to help Earl by selling the back ordered knives direct to the customers at dealer cost (about $100 below retail), thus allowing Earl to keep at least that portion of the deposit ($100/knife x over 100 knives).

Apparently, Earl feels that he is entitled to his commision despite the fact that he did not deliver the knives.

Personally, I think that Earl has not met his part of our agreement. He is a merchant and he was paid a deposit for merchandise that he is not going to deliver. I should have the option of receiving a full refund of my deposit.

I am concerned that Earl may not want to provide me the option of a refund for the full amount of my deposit as he seemed to indicate in his original post. I base this concern on private e-mail that I have received from him.

If that happens, I will be very grateful to MD for covering for Earl. MD could have just as easily taken the position that all of these orders were agreements between Earl and his customers and that MD Knives couldn't be held responsible (which probably would have left Earl in a pretty tight spot). MD didn't do that and I feel a lot better knowing that even if I can't get my refund I will at least get my knife (eventually).

I am more than willing to work with Earl on a resolution to this problem, Earl has always treated me well in our previous dealings.

My point is simply that there seems to be a lot more going on here than I am aware of and I am, therefore, unable to form an informed opinion or make informed decisions as to how to proceed.

If anybody has any info that they'd like to share now would be a good time. Earl is supposed to begin calling his customers tomorrow.

BTW, MD bashing seems to be a favorite passtime on these forums, however, I'm really hoping to read some usefull information rather than more MD sucks opinions (I already got the idea).


[This message has been edited by Steve6 (edited 17 December 1999).]
 
I think it would be in our best interest to wait and see what comes of the phone calls from Earl. If you do not have any business dealing with Earl I would ask that you do not respond to this thread. I do know the inside story here and it is a rather heated story and it does not need to be aired in public.

Should Earl not hold up his end of the bargain, you are free to post your feelings in the appropriet forum. Or take the advice which was posted on Mad Dog's forum.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
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I'm not sure what the deal is with this whole situation.

Here's my understanding of it thus far, let me know if I have it wrong:

Earl and Mad Dog have called it quits.
Earl is no longer able to give credits back via his terminal for whatever reason.
Earl is reluctant to send checks out, and risk the possibility of customers contesting the charges and getting, essentially their money back twice (a valid concern).
Mad Dog said that he would fill the orders that Earl has taken.
Mrs. Mad Dog said that they would fill them, and let Earl just keep the deposits, since that's what they (Mad Dog Knives) would be getting anyhow.

Now Mad Dog wants the full amount or something and wants Earl to send him a check? And he can't make the knives or something?
What's the deal? This looks like a big mess.

This brings up personal memories from a while ago, and I'm absolutely shocked and amazed at how this is being handled by both parties. It's like I'm having deja vu... only this time I'm not the one affected. Interesting how people don't change. I guess it was only a matter of time....

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Spark,

What do you mean when you say that MD wants a check from Earl and can't make the knives.

Last I heard we could get our knives from MD at dealer cost, which would mean that we really wouldn't lose any more than the difference between the dealer mark up and the amount of the deposit, which in my case and probably most others is $50.

Did I miss another turn of events in the last half hour.

Also, I read a post from Earl on the MD forum where Earl wrote that he could no longer accept any cancellation of orders. It seems to me that Earl is the one that cancelled ALL the orders.

What to do? I've paid more to take classes where I learned less. I still wish I knew what happened to cause all of this.

 
Steve6, I'm just repeating what I've been reading between the two forums. If I'm wrong, please correct me so I know what's going on.

From what I read, Mad Dog said that taking care of all of Earl's customers would put him 1 year to 18 months behind in production, and that he's lucky to do 65 knives a month.

If you can get them at dealer cost, then that's a really good deal for you, congrats to those lucky customers.

As for who cancelled all of the orders, that's between Mad Dog and Earl, I'm just as clueless as you are. If Mad Dog cut Earl off then I guess he cancelled all of the orders; if Earl up and quit, the blame lies with him.

I'm with you as to wanting to know what happened, it's a weird little world we knife knuts live in.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Spark-

I just spent nearly an hour with Teryl McClung on the phone, and she quite patiently explained the situation to me. Much of it isn't germane or appropriate for public posting, but some is, and some of your information is incorrect. Additionally, the MD bashing in the thread is uncalled for.

Earl is keeping the deposits; he feels that he's owed that money. Mad Dog has agreed to fill all outstanding orders at dealer cost to the customer, so the customer ends up paying normal retail - their deposit to Earl, and the balance to MD. This is an ugly situation for them, as they have shouldered the responsibility for fulfillment on a staggering quantity of knives without the benefit of the additional dollars. The dealer is keeping the money and not performing the fulfillment functions.

Under the circumstances, I believe they're doing yeoman's work to get through this. It screws up their normal distribution chain by diverting product which would normally go to their other dealers, it screws with their infrastructure by placing enormous demands on a micro-staffed company to perform customer service and fulfillment for all these orders, and lets Earl off the hook with a lot of $$$$$.

Earl, for his part - hasn't responded to over half a dozen emails I've sent him since this happened, nor has he responded to a message I placed in the forums there either. Not an encouraging word to be heard.

I have $400 in deposits with him. It's not going to take bread out of my kid's mouths to lose that money; I'm fortunate in that respect right now. On the other hand, IMHO Kevin and Teryl have really stepped up to the plate here, and Earl has shown a lack of followthrough which I find appalling.

I know many here don't like Kevin for a variety of reasons. I think some of those reasons are valid and others are simply coming from a herd mentality. I won't speak to the past or any shared history.

(disclosure) I own several MD blades, and blades by MANY other manufacturers who are respected here, and who compete vigorously with Mad Dog.

I think the MD bashing I've seen in this particular thread is completely uncalled-for and unprofessional in this situation. I've personally witnessed he and his wife breaking their asses to fix someone else's screwup.

Can we all just lighten up on MD for once, and watch as Earl's situation develops? I for one am nearly at the point of contacting his local Attorney General due to his lack of responsiveness to this situation.

FWIW

Eric

 
I am NOT a fan of Maddog. I have been on these forums for a few years now. I think his conduct has been pretty low (my opinion) at times. However I have been known to give credit where its due. It would appear from all I have read, that in this case Maddog Knives has gone way above and beyond the call. It would seem that this is alot of extra stress on MDK, especially this time of year. I am sure running a business, and trying to work through a major screw up of somebody elses business it terribly difficult. MDK seems to be doing an incredible job of working with somebody elses customers and should be told.... Great Job.

Richard
 
Just to be clear.

This is an ugly situation for them, as they have shouldered the responsibility for fulfillment on a staggering quantity of knives without the benefit of the additional dollars.
Click to expand...

Mad Dog is getting the same amount of money he would of recieved because he is selling them at dealer cost which is what Earl was paying anyway. Also Earl placed orders for knives at the same time the people placed them with him. Therefor it should not push Mad Dog back at all since he has had the orders all along. He just now has Earls actual customer list.

I do agree the Mad Dog is doing good for the customers and I applaud his efforts for this.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
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Mike:

I think your information is incorrect. Based on my information, part of the problem is that Earl did NOT place the orders with MDK. They had no idea how many knives Earl had promised to his customers.

And it appears for the most part that that is all Earl did as a dealer -- promise knives. Now Teryl McClung, who has her own company to run, is performing (at no compensation) the remainder of Earl's "dealer" functions.

BTW, as a friend of MDK, I applaud your positive words about them.

------------------
Gregg Kronenberger
 
IMHO, if you're going to help someone out of a situation, even if it's his own stupidity that has gotten him into the mess, just do it, don't bitch about it. Otherwise, just don't do it and leave the guy to wallow in his own mess.

JSP helped someone out of that persons similar situation without feeling the need to blow his own horn.

So again, just help the guy or don't help him but don't bother those not involved in the situation with this B.S.
 
Ditto Eric R, Richard, and Gregg.

To elaborate on Gregg’s first point: Teryl is getting overwhelmed not just by those customers reported by CFK&T, but by several others (with documentation for their orders) who are stepping forward daily.

RE Gregg’s second point: CFK&T has apparently SPENT the deposits -- which is not only illegal and unethical, but not very smart, as Earl is now learning. We’re looking at over $20,000 here of customers’ money.

But more to the point: How would you (i.e., whoever is reading this) feel if someone got paid for dropping HIS stack of files on YOUR desk, then said, “thanks for dealing with this for me”? True, MDK is not losing money on the price of the knives; but neither is Teryl getting paid for dozens of hours of free labor (which may well turn into hundreds of hours), nor reimbursed for dozens of long-distance calls made on her dime, not Earl’s.

Some folks have really displayed their true colors by uncritically roasting MDK on this matter. If it doesn’t involve you, as Mike Turber and others indicated early on, it’s really time for you to clear out.

Glen
 
Imp and other of his/her stripe:

Are you at all involved in this matter? If not, then you're not likely following the important details enough to make an informed opinion.

This thread is thread is for CFK&T CUSTOMERS. Those of us who are, visit this thread for INFORMATION. Unfortunately, we are having to devote most of this to clearing up misconceptions posted by rubbernecks who are casually drifting by the accident scene. "Gee, what stupid motorists. If they learned to drive, they wouldn't be dead."

Once again, if you are NOT a CFK&T customer, then there is really nothing for you to gain here. Those of us involved enjoy your opinions, wit, and concerns elsewhere, but
would greatly appreciate that you refrain from commenting here.

Glen
 
I can't believe that I am going to respond as I have managed to stay out of all of the Mad Dog mess(for the most part). But...

I can not believe that people on this forum continue to take every opportunity to bag on Kevin and Teryl while in the same breath, offer supportive words and understanding for Earl.

I guess the moral of the story is "it's not what you do, it's how nice you are while you do it".
 
Yo, Storyman or others of your kind,

Pray tell what kind of stripes do I have.

Yes, I'm involved, are you?

remeber what happens when you assume things? Like assuming that those responding arent involved.

[This message has been edited by imp (edited 18 December 1999).]
 
I received a call from Earl Stewart today, stating that he was going to send me a mail order for $250. He indicated that he was acting on the advice of his attorney by not refunding the full amount of my order, as he feels that he is due his commission on the sale of the knife.

While I do appreciate Earl's efforts, my order dates from 8-27-98, and was paid in full. It seems to me that to earn a commission, you should deliver the knife. Earl promised me the knife the first week of December 1999, and I now face a further wait of undetermined duration.

However, lawyers sometimes see things differently than other people, and I thank Earl very much for refunding part of my order. Walt
 
Well unfortunately I have a payment with Earl also and I haven't gotten any phone calls or emails back from him.

That isn't the kicker, I've been checking the list on tacticalforums and my initials aren't anywhere on the list. Teryl says she'll update the list........I think she said daily. I've been checking ever since that post came up and no RT717 on the list anywhere.

Not happy at all
Ross T.
 
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