ATTN: Customers of CFKAT and Mad Dog Knives

I got a call from Earl today although I didn't expect it. With over 100 unhappy customers I don't think it's feasible to contact all of them in one day (unless you wake some of them up and piss them off).

Anyway, I got the same story as Walt; Teryl will deliver your knife, Earls keeping the $100 comission, and the extra $50 is in the mail.

Pretty much what I expected. BTW, he offered me merchandise in lieu of the $50. I wasn't interested but it did seem like a good deal.

An added benefit to all of this is that I'm learning what kind of a markup there is on knives.

Which brings me to my final point, I agree with Walt; I think Earls commission is earned at delivery and since he cannot deliver, no commision. I don't agree with Earls idea that the comission covers the day to day cost of doing business and is extracted from the deposit when a customer places an order.

Finally, Earl mentioned that he is acting on the advice of an attorney and civil actions are pending. I'm not a business man and I don't know jack about running one. Apparently, I'm not alone.

Once again, I have conflicting information. I really don't know what happened.
 
I am not sure where the word commision is coming from.

Lets say a dealer buys a product at $250.00. He may take a deposit on that knife for say $50 and the final retial is say $350.00.

This means the dealer should put the $50 aside until the knife is ready for delivery. Then he at the point the knife is ready he then bills the costomer the $300 difference. He has now made $100 and he should then forward the $250 to the maker.

The problem here is it now appears that Earl spent the deposits thinking he would have made enough profit on other sales to have the money when the time came. His divorce may have created a problem there but that calls for speculation.

I hope to see a positive end to this situation. I am sure Mrs. Mad Dog is not enjoying this at all. There is also much more to this story then we need to air here. I know the inside scoop and if I see it about to break here I will kill this thread.

Obviously Mad Dog is not on my list of friends. In fact he is on another list of mine along with Earl
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But I do not think it is fair to air out what is actually a private matter between Mad Dog, Earl and the customers on this forum. If you have a gripe with either, I would suggest you move it to the appropriet forum.

Of course I can scream in any forum I wish
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Mike Turber
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Mike; Earl used the word commission in our telephone call of 12-18-99. That is where it came from. Walt
 
Mike-

You wrote:

"Mad Dog is getting the same amount of money he would of recieved because he is selling them at dealer cost which is what Earl was paying anyway."

That's only partially true. MDK is now shouldering the (considerable) costs of fulfillment; phone/labor/dropshipping, etc... which are normally paid for out of the dealer's portion of the revenue. They're allowing Earl to keep that revenue and essentially paying all his costs of operation and fulfillment out of their portion.

This is WAY above and beyond.
 
Trial by Internet.

Mistrial.

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Since the administrators of this forum and the "litigants" in this Trial by Internet have had previous contact that would require the most sober of judges to excuse himself from the case, I can say that they have tried to maintain a bit of dignity here, but the intractable problems remain. There are some arguments that can't be resolved in some places, absent divine intervention.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
My intentions for posting was not to contribute to a "trial by internet". My first indication that there was a problem with CFK&T came from Earls original post that began this thread. It seems only natural to continue to post here as the situation unfolds.

Although I have received private e-mail from both Earl and Teryl since then, I still come to this thread for information.

I also try to pass along information that I have received in the hope that it may be useful to those customers who may still be waiting to hear from Earl or Teryl. I have also included my opinions in my posts, however, I think it is obvious that they are just my opinions.

I have deliberately not posted some of the allegations that have been made because I have no idea as to whether or not they are true. You are right, this isn't a trial.

Up to this point it has been an exchange of information and opinion. I hope to see it stay that way and that is exactly why I haven't posted any of the allegations that have been made privately.

I'm sure there are still a lot of customers out there who have not spoken to Earl yet. If I were one of them I know I would appreciate any information this thread could provide.

I'm sure all of us want to see this situation resolved as soon as posible without a lot of mud slinging and bashing that will only make matters worse.
 
I thought it might be important to say that I've dealt with Earl on a business level before, and he has been good to me.

Understandably, with such a move, there is a good chance something will foul up somewhere along the way. I guess what I'm saying is that it would be best to give Earl a chance to clear everything up before we end up with another trial by internet.
 
Certainly whenever any dealer of knives is unable to deliver the goods for which he has either been paid in full or accepted a deposit, it's bad business for everyone selling knives. Pissed off customers tend stay that way. I don't know the facts in this case, so I won't comment on them.

However I'd suggest ALL customers pay by credit card when mailordering and know your bank's rules regarding disputed charges. Most banks allow you to dispute a charge within 3 or 4 months ot its appearing on your statement. After that, you loose. For this reason I'd never order and pay for goods that can't be delivered within that time frame and I refuse to pay a "deposit" to anyone over the Internet or mailorder.

I also don't ask my customers to put up a deposit when they order a knife. If they're willing to wait for it, I'm willing to wait to be paid until I can deliver.

My 2 cents...

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www.wilkins-knives.com


 
Walt

A most magnanimous gesture on your part.

I'm posting not as an involved party, but only to share a thought with those members who wish a refund of their deposit.

This thought requires some input from the more legally inclined members of the forum. But if you are in my financial position (i.e. not a professional, who could probably withstand the loss of the entire deposit), you would probably appreciate the entire amount of the deposit being refunded.

If you accept a partial refund, do you not legally imply that you will not seek further compensation. In other words, you have received payment in full. If you want a full refund, would you not want to refuse the offer of a partial refund?

Comments are welcomed. I'm not taking sides, but only trying to imagine myself as a customer who is potentially going to lose money.
 
No response at this writing to seven emails to Earl, and public postings here and on Tactical forums.

If it smells like horsesh*t...
 
I wonder if I might be so bold as to propose a two-week moratorium on discussion of this whole problem.

My reasoning is thus:

1. It is the holiday season

2. Earl is shutting down a small business, no simple task

3. Earl is starting a new job, a generally time consuming and stressful process.

4. It is unlikely anyone will suffer grievous harm from this delay, as far as I understand


I get the impression some of the posters have simply had it. Some have judged Earl’s business practices as poorly thought out, or even dishonorable. This has not been my experience. I have not gone through what you have so I cannot judge him beyond this. Earl is a human being, with children, going into Christmas. This situation must be taking its toll. His kids must be aware that something’s up. With all the talk of litigation, his lawyer might even be advising him to declare bankruptcy.

And here we are, on the brink of 2000, hopefully in good health, surrounded by friends and/or loved ones. Full of hope and apprehension for the future. And this simple problem seems to be snowballing out of control. I wish I could make like Linus, in “A Charle Brown Christmas” and wrap this up into a neat eloquent little message, but this is the best I’ve got. (Damn, I’m going to miss Mr. Shultz)

In the spirit of the season, what do you say? On Monday, January 3rd, 2000 we could take a look around and see where we stand.

Modestly Submitted,

Pleconin
(And yes, I’m an affected customer as well)
 
Pleconin...

That's the most sensible thing anyone has said in this whole issue. In keeping with the spirit of the season, I second Pleconin's motion, in hopes that both Earl's and MD's families can have the most stress-free Chrismas that is possible.
 
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