AUS-8A supply source

I've never seen AUS8 for sale. It seems that only major manufacturers can get it.

Any reason why you want to use AUS8?
 
Just educate the customer that AUS-8 is a selling name used by the larger knife companies, and 440-C is the equivalent steel for a hand made knife.

If the customer insists on AUS-8, buy a larger knife blank from a supplier and grind his blade from it.
 
bladsmth said:
Just educate the customer that AUS-8 is a selling name used by the larger knife companies, and 440-C is the equivalent steel for a hand made knife.
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No it isn't. You should not lie to your customers
 
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I agree that one shouldn't tell a customer that it's the same as 440C, but I also agree that educating your customer is the key in this circumstance. AUS-8 isn't particularly better than any of the stainless steels that we do have available to us.
 
I think the implication is that it's the same. I'm not saying Stacy was advocating being "dishonest" about it, but saying it's the equivalent isn't even really accurate, they are not virtually identical steels.
 
In what sense is it equivalent besides being mediocre stainless blade steel?

Calling 440C equivalent to AUS-8 is either lying, being ignorant, or intentionally being extremely liberal and vague in order to market one's own product.

AUS-8 is not just a selling name, its the same of a steel that has a specific chemical composition and is produced by a Aichi steel.

440C is a carbide monster, gigantic primary carbides. AUS-8 was designed to have fine carbides through a appropriate ratio of Cr and C.
 
C-9 said:
In what sense is it equivalent besides being mediocre stainless blade steel?
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There is your answer.

This should all come out in discussions with your customer while you are explaining the available options.

But they are equivalent in the same sense that an Accord is Honda's equivalent of a Toyota Camry.
 
They are equivalent in the sense that they have 4 wheels, but lack leather seats, and lack a Lexus/Acura badge.
 
I think you should talk your customer out of it and recommend a better steel. I seriously do not like aus 8 anything...
 
rororo64 said:
I think you should talk your customer out of it and recommend a better steel. I seriously do not like aus 8 anything...
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I'll second that! I have two knives with it and would never buy another. Just my personal experience.
 
Maybe my words don't translate into your native language the same as I meant them ( you haven't filled out your profile, so I don't know if you are in another country.). I never advocated , nor ever tolerate, lying to the customer.

Equivalent means just what it says..."Equal in value"......not identical, but similar enough in quality to be used in place of something.
If I win a prize in a sweepstakes and the car offered is not available, They can give me an equivalent prize. It won't be the same car, but will be as good a car as the one advertised. This isn't lying or cheating...it is offering an equivalent prize.
If I suggest an equivalent steel to a customer, I am offering them a steel that is similar in value to the one they asked for. I am not using one and calling it the other. If you use 440-C in place of AUS-8, and you say it is 440-C, then you are being honest and forthright with the customer.

What I was saying is that educating your customer about the steels available is how to deal with a request you can not do. AUS-8 is a commercial steel used by larger manufacturers, but not readily available to the small maker. The big manufacturers use it because it is cheap and makes an OK, but not outstanding knife. Explaining that 440-C is an acceptable and equivalent steel for a mid-range quality hand made knife is being honest, not lying.

As far as the line about the carbide sizes and V content, stating that it makes AUS-8 a greatly superior steel is lying to the customer. Properly heat treated, both will produce a good knife. Neither will be the same as a higher grade of CPM steel, but both will work fine.

I feel that an informed customer makes informed decisions. This allows the two of you to decide what is right for the order. I have had many requests for lower grade steels. Most times they ask for that steel because they read an add for a commercial knife. After a little discussion about the steels I use most often, and why I prefer them, I usually upgrade the job to CPM-154 or CPM-S35VN. The cost to the customer is a few bucks more. The quality of the knife is far greater. If they just want a cheaper knife, 440-C works fine.

If one wishes to get on the subject of misrepresenting steel types, many commercial sellers of blade blanks and finished blades sell the identical blade as AUS-8 one day, and then 440-C on another day. The blades are the same and I have even seen them sold as one and marked as the other when they arrive. One forumite had a AUS-8 label on a blank with 440-C underneath it.
 
bladsmth said:
I feel that an informed customer makes informed decisions. This allows the two of you to decide what is right for the order....
After a little discussion about the steels I use most often, and why I prefer them, I usually upgrade the job to CPM-154 or CPM-S35VN.
The quality of the knife is far greater.
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and that is the advantage of a custom
 
Maybe my words don't translate into your native language the same as I meant them ( you haven't filled out your profile, so I don't know if you are in another country.). I never advocated , nor ever tolerate, lying to the customer.
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No, I think you can tell by my earlier posts the meaning came across just fine. The only way they're equivalent is the fact that they're okay stainless blade steels.

Equivalent means just what it says..."Equal in value"......not identical, but similar enough in quality to be used in place of something.
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And I would have to disagree. If it is a soft production knife, maybe, but a custom knife maker has the ability mess with the heat treatment and geometry. With a thin edge and 60ish HRC, AUS-8 has the potential to be a good performer. The difference might not be so great in the arena of low-end production knives, but if you push either steel to their limits, like a knifemaker should, they would have noticeably different characteristics.

What I was saying is that educating your customer about the steels available is how to deal with a request you can not do. AUS-8 is a commercial steel used by larger manufacturers, but not readily available to the small maker. The big manufacturers use it because it is cheap and makes an OK, but not outstanding knife.
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Would you mind explaining this?

AUS-8 is a selling name used by the larger knife companies
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How is that a selling name? How is it any more of a selling name than any other steel name or designation? Because you certainly implied that AUS-8 is somehow unusual compared to 440C in that AUS-8 is a selling name.

440-C is the equivalent steel for a hand made knife
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And how would 440C be the equivalent if the only equivalency here is okay stainless blade steel? There are a number of other okay stainless steels available besides 440C.

As far as the line about the carbide sizes and V content, stating that it makes AUS-8 a greatly superior steel is lying to the customer.
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True, but also not true. Different steels, different characteristics. Few steels are superior in every way except for CPM equivalents and cleaner equivalents of steels. Besides that different steels can excel in different characteristics, and if I wanted a knife that would actually get sharp, I'd pick AUS-8 over 440C. If the knife was meant for a specific task, or a customer wanted some specific characteristics, it would not be a lie to tell them one steel would be better than another for a given application.

If one wishes to get on the subject of misrepresenting steel types, many commercial sellers of blade blanks and finished blades sell the identical blade as AUS-8 one day, and then 440-C on another day.
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Knifemakers should be above that, and be experts in their craft. There are a number of knifemakers I detest for their perpetual espousal of BS and misleading comments. If one truly wishes to educate their customers, they should avoid misleading comments and implying things that aren't true. Do such only adds to the volume of myths and misconceptions that are regurgitated to other potential customers.

By the way, my stainless steel of choice is not a CPM steel, and I feel it is superior for my application than nearly any other available CPM steel.
 
I would consider offering the customer CPM-154 for the same price you'd quote them for AUS-8 (assuming you can even find AUS-8 in small quanities). Assuming both are HT'ed properly, CPM-154 will kick AUS-8's butt up and down the street. You'll have to absorb a few dollars in extra material cost but it may be the best way to educate your customer and get a repeat order. Trying to eke the most out of a mediocre steel to get it close to a great one seems a bit silly to me.

I'm curious, what is your preferred stainless steel? Not being a smart-alec, I'm genuinely curious. I like both CPM-154 and Carpenter's CTS-XHP very much, and I'm always open to suggestions.
 
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I actually charge extra to work with a non-standard (for me) steel.

I keep CPM154, and CPM S35VN on hand, those are my standards.

If you want a lower grade steel, I have to order it, customer gets to pay for the time, hassle, and probably the rest of the bar of steel.
 
Fellhoelter said:
If you want a lower grade steel, I have to order it, customer gets to pay for the time, hassle, and probably the rest of the bar of steel.
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That's a good point. There's not much sense in stocking "leftovers" no one else is likely to want.
 
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