AUS-8A supply source

C-9,
The whole point of this thread was where can someone get AUS-8. If you have a source available to the small maker in the USA, please post it. I was recommending how to suggest a different steel, as the OP can't find any AUS-8.

I'll let this thread go now, as all I wanted to do was help the OP.
If you are happy with your steel of choice, that is what you should stay with. I am not trying to tell you different.
 
OK, guys. I didn't mean to start a urinating competition. Thank you all for your inputs, but let's be nice.

Brian, I agree with your policy of charging the customer a premium for non-standard materials and for the whole bar, if appropriate.

8A is certainly not my first (or second or third) choice in steels. Exploring sourcing for the customers requested material is part of a larger process of explaining the differences and advantages/disadvantages of other steels. We're talking about the possibility of a large order of 50 blades, potentially many more over time. Therefore, using a steel that is more reasonably priced than the exorbitantly priced exotics I typically use (CPM S30V and CPM 154CM) becomes necessary to meet a price point target.

So, maybe we shift this discussion to suggestions for a reasonably priced stainless steel with good, if not fantastic, edge holding characteristics for use on a chef's knife. What say you?

Cheers!
Mike
 
How about Sandvik C27? One of the usuall suspects has it in ground sheet form at a reasonable price. Similar fine edge like 8A me thinks.
 
Get experience making chef knives. Making a half decent one is a piece of cake. Then again you could always just buy Forschners if thats all that the customer wants. Making, designing, and grinding a high performance chef's knife is a completely different experience than making a typical bowie or utility knife.

The vast majority of knife makers that try to add chefs knives to their line ups majorly screw it up the first time. Chef knives are underestimated and little respected when they are actually some of the most demanding knives to make, and must be made to exacting standards.

Example, having a ricasso that extends all the way down to the heel to the edge is a major screw up, regardless if your customer is ill-informed and wants it, just like a recurve would be in the kitchen. I don't know how the cross sectional geometry is on your knives, but if you want to make a high performance knife, you have to nail it on the head. Getting the design and geometry right is going to be more important than the steel if you at least don't use substandard steel.

Also, Sandvik 12c27 is closer to AUS-6 than AUS-8, and people like AUS-6 less than AUS-8. The advantages are that 12c27 has high purity and is a better steel, and when it is used, it is not used as a low-carbon cheap alternative to other steels, and is given the respect it deserves.
 
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C-9 said:
Get experience making chef knives. Making a half decent one is a piece of cake. Then again you could always just buy Forschners if thats all that the customer wants. Making, designing, and grinding a high performance chef's knife is a completely different experience than making a typical bowie or utility knife.

The vast majority of knife makers that try to add chefs knives to their line ups majorly screw it up the first time. Chef knives are underestimated and little respected when they are actually some of the most demanding knives to make, and must be made to exacting standards.

Example, having a ricasso that extends all the way down to the heel to the edge is a major screw up, regardless if your customer is ill-informed and wants it, just like a recurve would be in the kitchen. I don't know how the cross sectional geometry is on your knives, but if you want to make a high performance knife, you have to nail it on the head. Getting the design and geometry right is going to be more important than the steel if you at least don't use substandard steel.

Also, Sandvik 12c27 is closer to AUS-6 than AUS-8, and people like AUS-6 less than AUS-8. The advantages are that 12c27 has high purity and is a better steel, and when it is used, it is not used as a low-carbon cheap alternative to other steels, and is given the respect it deserves.
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And your point is? He requested a reasonably priced steel that would meet his needs. Please give him a suggestion as opposed to telling him what not to use.
 
Where did I say not to use any particular steel? I'm just commenting on how people dislike AUS-8, and AUS-6 even more, but then 12c27 is recommended. The point is its not the steel as much as what you do with it. If you have a steel that can reach about 60 HRC, then it can as a rule of thumb, support a reasonably thin edge in the kitchen and make a knife most people would consider high performance, although softer knives 55-57 HRC might have trouble with that which is why they often have thicker edges.
 
Do you have a steel you could suggest to the op that meets his need for lower cost and reasonable performance? That is the request, not design input or critique.
 
stevomiller said:
Do you have a steel you could suggest to the op that meets his need for lower cost and reasonable performance? That is the request, not design input or critique.
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I think I'm free to discuss the steels being discussed, instead of arbitrarily just naming potential candidates without saying why or why not they may be good or bad for the job. If I'm not, then you'll have to get me banned to shut up. The big requirement for a "high performance" kitchen knife is moderately high hardness, ~60 give or take depending on the steel. The geometry and edge a 60 HRC knife can take is what separates from the 56 HRC knives that are commonly used. Not everyone can get 60 HRC out of 12c27 due to lack of cryo and oil quench equipment, so in that case, I'd take a more easily hardening steel like 19c27, even though its performance characteristics are different. It is easy to get near the full potential of 19c27, but a bit harder for 12c27. You also have to consider what a customer wants in a knife, as different steels are suited for different things. There are lots of different steels that could be used in a kitchen application depending on the end users preferences.
 
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The Sandvik steels are inexpensive, will perform very similar to the customer's request of AUS8, have good stain resistance and will field sharpen just fine by someone experienced with factory run chef's knives. Additionally, they seem to finish up well without as much effort as some high performance steels. Anyone who's done a couple of these for money will tell you that the time expense can quickly outweigh the asking price.

I did a chef's knife a while back out of ATS-34 and the complaint was that it didn't sharpen away on a stone like x-brand commercial knife. Nothing about edge retention, geometry, doesn't cut well in Y application, whatever, just "it's harder to sharpen than my other knives".
 
I'm curious - why does the customer want AUS8? Perhaps that will shed some light on options...
 
Thank you all for your input. I appreciate the different perspectives, and most appear to be based on real experience.

C-9, you may not be aware that I have been a full-time knifemaker for 11 years (this month) and have been making chef's knives, among others, for nearly 20 years, with many very satisfied customers, including a number of professional chefs. Thanks for your suggestions that I get some experience making chef's knives However, finding the time to get experience is so difficult, with my backlog approaching two years.

Back on topic: Most of my kitchen cutlery has been made of S30V, (with appropriate blade geometry and Paul's heat treating, for the benefit of C9). For a private label chef's knife at a price point for the public, (not necessarily my typical clients who don't mind spending $400 or more for a chef's knife) the material and production cost of S30V is prohibitive.

The customer is a knife retailer who has experience with many alloys. He has had positive experiences with 8A, but clearly understands that it does not perform like the super steels. It was one suggestion I am exploring along with other options. We've both had marginal experience from 440C. ATS-34 is a little better. I've not used the Sandvik steels, nor am I familar with N680. I'll look into those.

Thank you all.
Mike
 
moonblades said:
The customer is a knife retailer who has experience with many alloys. He has had positive experiences with 8A, but clearly understands that it does not perform like the super steels.
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Now I understand. I had assumed (and we all know what that stands for) you were talking about a single knife or set. Sorry I couldn't be of help.
 
No, James, you HAVE helped. Every viewpoint helps me formulate my own position. I appreciate your participation and insight. Same to all who participate in these discussions.
Have a great day!
Mike
 
C-9 said:
Get experience making chef knives. Making a half decent one is a piece of cake....
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Perhaps you should have clicked the link to Mike's website. It really does help to fill out your profile, too. You can participate and add value to this forum with a bit of respect in your posts. You seem fairly knowledgeable yet I can't get through a single post of yours without my stomach twisting in knots.... and it has nothing to do with content... just delivery.

Rick
 
We're leaning towards 13C26. Good inputs here and in other threads indicate that might have a nice balance of performance and price.

...and thanks, Rick. I've enjoyed your posts elsewhere on here and really like your knifecraft. Hey, maybe I'll use the same thought process for my Blade Show 2011 table location - that's Table 6-E - Easy to remember 'cause it sounds like I look: sexy!!

I hope you're laughing WITH me. And I look forward to meeting you there.

Cheers!
Moon
 
I think that would be a good choice. It will get a SCARY sharp edge, retention is not bad at all, and it resharpens easily. It and 12c27 are very clean steels and really perform above their "ranking" in the steel world. The Moras that I have in 12c27 at 56-58RC are great blades, as are the Kershaw knives that I have in 13c26. I wish the Kershaw's were a tad harder, I read somewhere (no I can't remember) that they run their 13c26 around 55RC. That seems low to me, but my Moras definitely hold a usuable edge longer than my Kershaw blades do.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Perhaps you should have clicked the link to Mike's website. It really does help to fill out your profile, too. You can participate and add value to this forum with a bit of respect in your posts. You seem fairly knowledgeable yet I can't get through a single post of yours without my stomach twisting in knots.... and it has nothing to do with content... just delivery.

Rick
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A hundred times yes, I rarely come in here and happened across this and read for the insight and geez did one individual come across as condescending right away.
 
You know, AEB-L might even better than 13C26 - I remember comparing the two and concluding that AEB-L might end up with finer carbides. It also can also be sharpened scary sharp. Alpha Knife Supply has some in .104" thickness.

(I didn't like the way it grinds, but that's a personal issue.)
 
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