Axe? Please educate me

[bluemax_1]

The trick is to "flick" the bit to get it to split the wood without sticking.

A technique made prominent by Tom Clark

Also displayed perfectly here

Yup. And another advantage of that technique is that you won't drive the bit into the ground (or stump/base). Thanks for a trip down memory lane. Hadn't seen that old video in a long time.

 

[Pàdruig]

I just finished reading through this thread. Truth be told, when I first caught wind that a CPK axe idea was being discussed, I was somewhat dismissive of it (I kept that to myself though). I was envisioning either some sort of tomahawk or all-steel hatchet of some sort - both of which I have little to no use for.

Reading through this thread was a rather pleasant surprise though and I am excited for what is being discussed. I am not a professional axe-man like some here but I grew up on a farm and lived on a farm for a number of my adult years - an axe is an essential tool. Splitting wood, bucking up fallen trees, and clearing trails in my back woods were all chores that I did regularly and I got a lot of enjoyment out of them.

To me, an axe is a tool - gone are the days where one can go to their local hardware store, pick up a piece of hickory and steel, tune the edge to your liking, and put 'er to work. My hardware store carries junk these days and it seems in order to get anything of meaningful quality, you either pay an absurd price or you find some good vintage steel (which are going for absurd prices sometimes as well).

I am cautiously optimistic with regards to a CPK axe project. My favorite size for general use is the "Boys Axe" - 2 1/4 lb. head and a 26(ish) inch handle. Not too heavy to carry in pack and gives plenty of length for some serious work. My one sticking point is the potential price - though I know it will be worth every penny, I will need to come to terms with the idea that I can spend the same kind of money or more on an axe that I do on a knife. Up until now, I've never needed to do so.

 

[Hard Knocks]

The trick is to "flick" the bit to get it to split the wood without sticking.

A technique made prominent by Tom Clark

Also displayed perfectly here

I watched my dad win several splitting contests at gatherings when I was a kid, as well as him and my mother winning jack & jill crosscut contests. He was a genius at running an axe and finishing with a flick, almost never sticking a blade. I always preferred a double bit axe for that technique as it seemed to add more torque to the flick and stick less vs a single-bit, but that's probably just me. The gal in that last clip is a gem.

 

[Grenock]

I watched my dad win several splitting contests at gatherings when I was a kid, as well as him and my mother winning jack & jill crosscut contests. He was a genius at running an axe and finishing with a flick, almost never sticking a blade. I always preferred a double bit axe for that technique as it seemed to add more torque to the flick and stick less vs a single-bit, but that's probably just me. The gal in that last clip is a gem.

Mom and pop sound pretty cool and rugged.

So, how’d you grow up to be such a puddin’?

 

[Hard Knocks]

Mom and pop sound pretty cool and rugged.

So, how’d you grow up to be such a puddin’?

Whenever they went to town they'd borrow the neighbor's kids and leave me at home. And that's Mr. Puddin' to you

 

[trevitrace]

Whenever they went to town they'd borrow the neighbor's kids and leave me at home. And that's Mr. Puddin' to you

I'd throw a fin in for that name change.

 

[Casinostocks]

I went ahead and read the whole thread from its start and as usual, Marc (Grenock to those not-in-the-know) is the worst poster followed by yours truly as a very close second (I'm biased, bite me). After exhaustively reading the whole thread post by post, here are my observations and conclusions:

Nathan has encapsulated the whole argument in post # 172 and in fact, he answers his own questions about this CPK-Axe idea if Jo somehow gets on board with this project. FWIW, I think that any kind of hatchet or small axe will not be a complement to the array of CPK patterns say from the little EDC variants right up to and including the HDFK. I mean, why would a maker so well known and respected for their knives would wanna get into the hatchet and small axe game, specially when the price point is going to be 400 and above?! Any CPK-Axe in that range will be anthesis to Carothers Performance Knives with the emphasis on "performance knives"...

Nathan if you must get this out of your system to show the doubters that a machinist can indeed create a kick-ass axe via CNC as opposed to casting and forging, then go for broke Go for the type of heavy hitting mofo which will complement and supplement the bevy of your big boy choppers: HC / HDMC / BC & Behemother... Like if someone wants super human splitting oomph than the bigger CPK-Boys, then he/she will reach out for the CPK-Axe which will not bend, break, chip or get stuck. BOOM!

TL;DR: agreeing with those who yearn for a mean splitter with a 2.5 lb ≤ axe head ≤ 3 lb. Haft ~ 26" outta the best hickory which you can source out. And Marc still sucks!

 

[woodysone]

I went ahead and read the whole thread from its start and as usual, Marc (Grenock to those not-in-the-know) is the worst poster followed by yours truly as a very close second (I'm biased, bite me). After exhaustively reading the whole thread post by post, here are my observations and conclusions:

Nathan has encapsulated the whole argument in post # 172 and in fact, he answers his own questions about this CPK-Axe idea if Jo somehow gets on board with this project. FWIW, I think that any kind of hatchet or small axe will not be a complement to the array of CPK patterns say from the little EDC variants right up to and including the HDFK. I mean, why would a maker so well known and respected for their knives would wanna get into the hatchet and small axe game, specially when the price point is going to be 400 and above?! Any CPK-Axe in that range will be anthesis to Carothers Performance Knives with the emphasis on "performance knives"...

Nathan if you must get this out of your system to show the doubters that a machinist can indeed create a kick-ass axe via CNC as opposed to casting and forging, then go for broke Go for the type of heavy hitting mofo which will complement and supplement the bevy of your big boy choppers: HC / HDMC / BC & Behemother... Like if someone wants super human splitting oomph than the bigger CPK-Boys, then he/she will reach out for the CPK-Axe which will not bend, break, chip or get stuck. BOOM!

TL;DR: agreeing with those who yearn for a mean splitter with a 2.5 lb ≤ axe head ≤ 3 lb. Haft ~ 26" outta the best hickory which you can source out. And Marc still sucks!

Again Mat, you have a way of condensing a lot of information and putting your special touch on it but in the end makes perfect sense.

 

[Mike157]

I recently came across a brand of US made axes/hatchets/hammers called “Hardcore”. 4140 steel. They claim to be some of the best in the world.
I know very little about the design aspects of these types of tools, but did do quite a bit cutting, chopping, hammering in my younger days, and always appreciated one that worked well for me - usually from the hardware store. I posted this here to see if anyone had experience with this company, and also to possibly contribute to the varieties of the design possibilities. Mike

I don’t remember these being discussed before. My apologies if they have.

 

[Brian77]

I went ahead and read the whole thread from its start and as usual, Marc (Grenock to those not-in-the-know) is the worst poster followed by yours truly as a very close second (I'm biased, bite me). After exhaustively reading the whole thread post by post, here are my observations and conclusions:

Nathan has encapsulated the whole argument in post # 172 and in fact, he answers his own questions about this CPK-Axe idea if Jo somehow gets on board with this project. FWIW, I think that any kind of hatchet or small axe will not be a complement to the array of CPK patterns say from the little EDC variants right up to and including the HDFK. I mean, why would a maker so well known and respected for their knives would wanna get into the hatchet and small axe game, specially when the price point is going to be 400 and above?! Any CPK-Axe in that range will be anthesis to Carothers Performance Knives with the emphasis on "performance knives"...

Nathan if you must get this out of your system to show the doubters that a machinist can indeed create a kick-ass axe via CNC as opposed to casting and forging, then go for broke Go for the type of heavy hitting mofo which will complement and supplement the bevy of your big boy choppers: HC / HDMC / BC & Behemother... Like if someone wants super human splitting oomph than the bigger CPK-Boys, then he/she will reach out for the CPK-Axe which will not bend, break, chip or get stuck. BOOM!

TL;DR: agreeing with those who yearn for a mean splitter with a 2.5 lb ≤ axe head ≤ 3 lb. Haft ~ 26" outta the best hickory which you can source out. And Marc still sucks!

Hate to do it, Matt. Your thought process is understandable. But may i disagree? In the current Marketplace both on Instagram, and out there in the larger Bushcraft Community, there is a hunger for and people searching for the class of Axe that Nathan is describing. About 1.75 to 2 pounds.

And in the category of Camp Axe, and especially Camp Carver. These can be used in a variety of situations and would definitely have a place where they could be designed into the "performance" category that CPK is known for. The ability to be shaving sharp, and do find carving with it, as well as the more mundane tasks such as limiting and creating kindling, as well as shaving curls and Fire Starting and working to make spoons and cusco.

Some fine touches to centuries old designs would be very fitting and marketable. A big mofo axe was a very specialty tool years ago and today would be almost unusable by the vast majority of the population.

In my lowly opinion

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

I think that people who are accustomed to 4140, 4130, 1070, 1050 etc. axes with very basic heat treat will be surprised with Delta 3V

 

[Mike157]

I think that people who are accustomed to 4140, 4130, 1070, 1050 etc. axes with very basic heat treat will be surprised with Delta 3V

Most likely be the best axe, ever.

 

[Casinostocks]

Hate to do it, Matt. Your thought process is understandable. But may i disagree? In the current Marketplace both on Instagram, and out there in the larger Bushcraft Community, there is a hunger for and people searching for the class of Axe that Nathan is describing. About 1.75 to 2 pounds.

And in the category of Camp Axe, and especially Camp Carver. These can be used in a variety of situations and would definitely have a place where they could be designed into the "performance" category that CPK is known for. The ability to be shaving sharp, and do find carving with it, as well as the more mundane tasks such as limiting and creating kindling, as well as shaving curls and Fire Starting and working to make spoons and cusco.

Some fine touches to centuries old designs would be very fitting and marketable. A big mofo axe was a very specialty tool years ago and today would be almost unusable by the vast majority of the population.

In my lowly opinion

Hey Brian, no need to say sorry to me! If there are only a handful of people in here who know axes and whose opinions Nathan ought to pay attention to and heed their input, you’d be in that very small circle

I’m the last guy Nathan ought to pay any attention to when it comes to design, geometry and all the wonk stuff. That said? I’m a numbers guy and if this project should ever get off the ground, there are two very crucially important numbers: 1 and the other roughly 100. If Jo ever gets on board and agrees for Nathan to embark on a CPK-Axe, it will very likely be a one-and-done sorta thing (call it Jo’s pass for Nathan’s midlife crisis, haha). The other number is the number of units which Nathan will have to sell to break even. No matter in which direction he may get encouraged, you influencers ought to consider the numbers.

 

[trevitrace]

I think that people who are accustomed to 4140, 4130, 1070, 1050 etc. axes with very basic heat treat will be surprised with Delta 3V

Will be? Is it happening?

 

[benchrest308]

Please make it a pre-order. It's my only hope.

 

[Casinostocks]

Nathan, here is the challenge which you've been looking for:

I had never heard of Sibbulat Axes till this afternoon when I received an email from Lamnia. Now if you had thought that only Liam Hoffman's or Autine Axes were on the heftier side of the price scale, then both you and I have apparently been living under a rock! This Russian (Siberian maker) maker's axes are in the high 2's to the high 3's for what seem to be the mass-market working axes (I dunno, similar to your projected Amazon line?) with quite a few in the 600's, 800's and even north of 1K which the L.H axes also fetch on eBay's secondary. I think that these axes are forged by being marketed as triple layered axes but I otherwise I dunno diddly squat when it comes to the wonk science of steel and carbides. This is from their website:

"The temperature range is from -50 to +180 °C. Tempered hardness: 64.5 HRC. Working hardness: 60-62 HRC. The steel has high blade durability to strains and at the same time flexibility at low temperatures. Relative ultimate elongation: 7-8%. Elongation durability limit of the tempered sample is 220 kg/cm2. Long use (since 2002) of 10ХНФ steel has proved its efficiency and reliability.Chemical composition of 10ХНФ: Carbon: 0.95-1.1% Chrome, nickel, vanadium, manganese- under 1%"

Link: http://sibbulat.ru/en/topory-2.html

A video just popped up on YT on these which is like over 2 hours long so I will spare you by refraining from posting the link but it can be found by searching: SIBBULAT AXES (СИБИРСКОГО БУЛАТА) - AN INTRODUCTION

All I know that I'm now all hyper because if these Russians are also making knives per their website, Jo ought to get onboard with the rest of us for at least for one CPK axe

ETA:

 

[Casinostocks]

^ OK, after looking into them a bit more carefully, they are mostly hatchets ranging from ~ 14" to ~ 20" in OAL with bearded head profiles in the ~ 4.5" BL. Retailing for low $200's to mid $400's so not that horrible but still pricier than those softer GBs which to most folks are already quite pricey axes. Those Sibbulat axes in the $600 to $1000+ range are all in Damascus steel hence the big price jump. Almost tempted to get one in the lower range to send over to CPK as a loaner so that Nathan can conduct some counter espionage on those Russians!

ETA: their website prices in Russian Rubles are like 60% of the listed dealer prices, of welp that sucks because unless in mother Russia, must go through a dealer. Still worthwhile to get one that doesn't break the bank to put to some torture test. What says you Nate?

Oh screw it, I've already gone cold on this and am outta this rabbit hole because I don't even understand this 10ХНФ steel. I'll stick to my soft GBs till if & when CPK makes us an axe.

 

[steelcitysixteen]

Something along the lines of the RMJ Tactical Tomahawks seems like a good fit for the stuff CPK puts out in D3V.

https://www.rmjtactical.com/collections/tactical-tomahawks

 

[madcap_magician]

Something along the lines of the RMJ Tactical Tomahawks seems like a good fit for the stuff CPK puts out in D3V.

https://www.rmjtactical.com/collections/tactical-tomahawks

This is what I wanted, as an emergency/crash axe to keep in my car, but it looks like the party supporting the woodsman's axe has won.

Which is fine, I can't afford all the stuff on the radar already!

 

[steelcitysixteen]

This is what I wanted, as an emergency/crash axe to keep in my car, but it looks like the party supporting the woodsman's axe has won.

Which is fine, I can't afford all the stuff on the radar already!

Has it been decided yet? I thought it was still up in the air. The good thing about these tactical axes is that there is no handle to worry about hanging. You have to worry about people complaining about grain and tightness, etc. People complaining when it comes loose due to humidity changes, etc. The tactical ones he can just throw some machined ECAM scales on and call it a day! They look much more like something CPK would put out in my opinion.