Axis Lock Fragile?

[loonybin]

I don't think it's anything I'm doing during disassembly, but I have been known to be wrong in the past I'm a tinkerer, and if the action of my knife still feels sticky after oiling and a break-in, I usually break it down and polish the washers. That's it. Once the knife is running smoothly, I don't have a need to take it apart again. But with my 940-1, usually a few months of use later I'll open the knife and break a spring. This is the only "Axis Lock" knife I can speak of however, because it's the only one I've owned.

Fidgeting with the Axis lock probably means more than 10 times in rapid succession, am I correct? The more you do it in rapid succession, the faster the spring will heat up and it's temper will be affected, causing premature failure. I can go 10 years without a spring failure -- even opening it hundreds of times -- because it is not done all at once, thus no heat buildup, thus no loss of temper.

 

[jaypowell0185]

Ive never had any problems with mine. I have had numerous models the longest being the mini grip and that is about 6 years old

 

[robgmn]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but a spring is made to be a spring. As such, it should not be an "only use this a few times a day or it will fail" deal.
Imagine being told you shouldn't run your car or you'll wear out the valve springs.
In other words, I think the spring should last as long as the rest of the knife, no matter how much you lock and unlock it.

Then again, a local chimney cleaning company told me they don't vacuum out ash pits any more because it was too rough on their ash pit vacuums...

 

[mqqn]

I don't incessantly flip my Benchmade's that have an Axis lock, but I have owned at least one for many years without any problem.

The omega springs are relatively easy to replace, and BM used to be willing to send out a few if you broke one.

Not a bad idea to have some on hand just in case.

I would not say the Axis lock is fragile, I think it has stood the test of time and is a durable and reliable mechanism.

best

mqqn

 

[SpyderPhreak]

I've only had the Omega springs break in one of my BM knives, my daily-carried (since ~'01) 154CM model 943. One broke, and it lasted for about a year like that until the other finally broke. Sent it back to BM and it's been fine since.

mqqn, it's been a LONG time since BM sent out Omega springs. You have to see the knife back to get them repaired, unfortunately.

 

[OnceBitten]

Guess I'll have to invest in a Torqbar or something...

Nah....get a balisong. There's nothing like cut-up, bleeding fingers to cure you of your need to fidget...or....get a job where you don't have time to fidget.

LOL!

 

[mqqn]

I've only had the Omega springs break in one of my BM knives, my daily-carried (since ~'01) 154CM model 943. One broke, and it lasted for about a year like that until the other finally broke. Sent it back to BM and it's been fine since.

mqqn, it's been a LONG time since BM sent out Omega springs. You have to see the knife back to get them repaired, unfortunately.

Thanks - shows you how long it has been since I had to contact Benchmade (never have about an omega spring as a matter of fact...) -

Too bad though, it is a fairly simple matter to put in a new spring - a little fiddly but it can be done by most I would think.

best

mqqn

 

[Camillus72]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but a spring is made to be a spring. As such, it should not be an "only use this a few times a day or it will fail" deal.
Imagine being told you shouldn't run your car or you'll wear out the valve springs.
In other words, I think the spring should last as long as the rest of the knife, no matter how much you lock and unlock it.

Then again, a local chimney cleaning company told me they don't vacuum out ash pits any more because it was too rough on their ash pit vacuums...

That's what I was thinking! But I guess more wear and breakage is expected with more use...

 

[loonybin]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but a spring is made to be a spring. As such, it should not be an "only use this a few times a day or it will fail" deal.
Imagine being told you shouldn't run your car or you'll wear out the valve springs.
In other words, I think the spring should last as long as the rest of the knife, no matter how much you lock and unlock it.

Then again, a local chimney cleaning company told me they don't vacuum out ash pits any more because it was too rough on their ash pit vacuums...

Yes, you are oversimplifying. Using the knife is very different from fidgeting with it. Even using the knife 100 times over the course of a work day is a far cry from fidgeting with it which can result in that many flicks in a few minutes. Valve springs are not a useful comparison since they are much thicker, are coil springs, and are designed for that kind of use . And... even valve springs can wear out.

 

[Jesse B.]

If the Axis lock was inherently fragile, it wouldn't have lasted on the market for the past ~20 years.

 

[Camillus72]

If the Axis lock was inherently fragile, it wouldn't have lasted on the market for the past ~20 years.

You're correct. I admit I titled this thread as such to get more people to click and weigh in. Every time I've seen a lock strength test performed on the Axis Lock it always holds up well.

 

[robgmn]

Yes, you are oversimplifying. Using the knife is very different from fidgeting with it. Even using the knife 100 times over the course of a work day is a far cry from fidgeting with it which can result in that many flicks in a few minutes. Valve springs are not a useful comparison since they are much thicker, are coil springs, and are designed for that kind of use . And... even valve springs can wear out.

How about it if I compare it to a PC keyboard key return spring that get similarly flexed 100,000 times without failure?

 

[Keyman]

How about you lock springs?
They are present in your house lock, your car lock, your ignition.....etc.

 

[JNewell]

Almost 20 years of ownership and use, including fidgeting. Never a broken spring or worn out lock.

 

[robgmn]

The balance wheel on an average mechanical wristwatch oscillates ~28,800 timer PER HOUR thanks to a coiled spring.
Springs that are not capable of being used as a spring are what I call "defective".
The fact that most of the Axis springs break in the same spot should be cluing somebody in to a design or materials defect.

Conspiracy Theory - Maybe it was designed this way on purpose so Ganzo would copy it and send out a ton of defective knives...

 

[loonybin]

How about it if I compare it to a PC keyboard key return spring that get similarly flexed 100,000 times without failure?

How about you lock springs?
They are present in your house lock, your car lock, your ignition.....etc.

Again, coil springs, which are designed for that kind of work. The entire range of motion is distributed over several coils instead of one bend. Put an omega spring on a keyboard key, give it to my oldest son as he plays Warframe, or my 3rd son as he plays Minecraft wars, and it will break in no time.

 

[Keyman]

Actually, they are both considered coil springs.
One is used as a torsion spring the other as a compression spring.

Yes Loonybin you are most certainly correct........a compression spring is much more durable than a torsion spring is (for the reasons you mentioned)......especially when it comes to repetitive motion.

When Schlage first introduced levers to their lock line up.
They designed the return spring for the levers using a torsion spring.
These locks were on the market for less than a year before Schlage did a re-design and made the return spring work using compression springs.
Schlage then supplied all it's patrons with replacement spring hubs with the new design, to replace all the older designs hubs that were still in the field.
Schlage backs up their product.

That is also why I really like the look of the new BM781; it utilizes a compression spring instead of the usual omega spring.

 

[Camillus72]

Actually, they are both considered coil springs.
One is used as a torsion spring the other as a compression spring.

Yes Loonybin you are most certainly correct........a compression spring is much more durable than a torsion spring is (for the reasons you mentioned)......especially when it comes to repetitive motion.

When Schlage first introduced levers to their lock line up.
They designed the return spring for the levers using a torsion spring.
These locks were on the market for less than a year before Schlage did a re-design and made the return spring work using compression springs.
Schlage then supplied all it's patrons with replacement spring hubs with the new design, to replace all the older designs hubs that were still in the field.
Schlage backs up their product.

That is also why I really like the look of the new BM781; it utilizes a compression spring instead of the usual omega spring.

Good Lord, that is one SWEET looking knife! Titanium integral and 20CV steel?

 

[jbmonkey]

The balance wheel on an average mechanical wristwatch oscillates ~28,800 timer PER HOUR thanks to a coiled spring.
Springs that are not capable of being used as a spring are what I call "defective".
The fact that most of the Axis springs break in the same spot should be cluing somebody in to a design or materials defect.

Conspiracy Theory - Maybe it was designed this way on purpose so Ganzo would copy it and send out a ton of defective knives...

problem with that conspiracy theory is ganzos springs dont break.

 

[jkarp_53]

Fidgeting with the Axis lock probably means more than 10 times in rapid succession, am I correct? The more you do it in rapid succession, the faster the spring will heat up and it's temper will be affected, causing premature failure. I can go 10 years without a spring failure -- even opening it hundreds of times -- because it is not done all at once, thus no heat buildup, thus no loss of temper.

I rarely find the need to flick my Axis knives open, and yet with the pivot adjusted to my liking give it a gentle flick closed. No problems with this technique.