Axis Lock testing

beluga

beluga

Joined
Nov 17, 2001
Messages
1,957
Has anyone (or any company) ever tasted the axis lock in term of its toughness ? Benchmade claims that it can withstand 800+ lbs. pressure, but I culd not find anything supporting this conclusion. I would love to hear how Benchmade tested its axis lock, or perhaps anyone else ?
 
800 pounds sounds like a lot, but maybe. If I hammer my 710 into a tree or something I'd feel safe holding onto the handle and having it suspend my body weight. In order for the lock to fail it would have to push the lock bar through the two steel liners. That's a lot of metal to break through. On top of that it would have to break through the G-10 scales as well.

I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that with a liner lock, I'll tell you that. I'd picture the liner buckling.
 
In my opinion, if you need a stronger lock than the Axis you should limit yourself to fixed blades.

Many believe that the frame lock and lockback are stronger than the axis and the liner is last in strength, I find this hard to believe, I cant see how any of these locks are stronger than the Axis espically the frame lock as it still has the same potential problems as the liner under extreme stress, sliding off the blade tang!

I would think the AXIS, Compression, and Rolling Lock are the strongest from a mechanical comparision.

Yes I know I have done nothing to answer your question, sorry.
With all the knife testing that is going on on this forum you would think a test of these hypotheses would be possible.

I think the one knife responsible for people thinking the frame lock is superior is the Sebenza, which many love and would hate to admit its lock strength isnt superior to the AXIS.

As far as the lockback goes, do some spine wacking tests with the ones you admire and you will find that many are insufficient.

Of coarse the particular knife which is housing any of these locks has a lot to do with the locks strength.
 
Good point about a frame lock sliding off. If it slides on, why couldn't it slide back off under stress? Makes sense to me. I have a Sebenza and it's a great knife, but I'd put more trust in the Axis lock than the Sebenza's frame lock. The only thing I've heard that could be a problem with the Axis lock is if the spring breaks.
 
The way you get the high numbers is listing the strength at tip.

the spydie military is 150lbs+/inch strength with the linerlock and eccentric pivot... so thats 600+ at tip... Now consider the MBC range being 250lbs+/inch. The Chinook I heard tops thier machine at 850lbs, and thats a 3.75"... dunno about the ATR yet... but integral compression lock on the ti salsa(lightweight compared to it) tops at 192lbs/inch on a 2.375"
 
from what i've read here, the main problem with the axis lock is disengagement by accidentally moving the button with your fingers or thumb. never experienced it, don't have one, this is just what i've read from a couple of folks.
 
Originally posted by anonymous
from what i've read here, the main problem with the axis lock is disengagement by accidentally moving the button with your fingers or thumb. never experienced it, don't have one, this is just what i've read from a couple of folks.
Click to expand...

I think you're taking some liberty here. That's not the main problem of the axis lock. It's a theoretical problem people keep bringing up that there is no real evidence happens in real life. One guy said this happened to him in the last thread, which makes the total number of failures reported over the past several years due to this problem exactly one -- a small enough number that it shouldn't be a major factor. Plain and simple, it's a theoretical problem that people like bringing up, often ignoring the actual failures that are reported on the other popular lock formats.

The true biggest problem with the axis is that occasionally a spring breaks; not that often, but it happens. This doesn't happen anywhere near as often as, say, a liner lock fails a spine whack test, but it does happen enough that it's worth noting. It's not an immediate risk because all axis locks to date use two springs, and the second spring keeps the blade locked open, but it does mean you have to send the knife back to benchmade to get a new spring put in.

Joe
 
Originally posted by Joe Talmadge
I think you're taking some liberty here.
Click to expand...
ha.

was that my "locks on the handle" thread you're talking about?

i'm too lazy to check the other thread, but i thought a couple folks chimed in with how they disengaged the axis lock accidentally. if it was only one, then my bad for misreporting the failures by 100%. still, i've handled a bm axis lock & it gave me the willies. thanks for clarifying the spring thing.
 
Just one that I remember (I'm too lazy to go back and look also :) ), although one or two other people agreed with you that they too were worried about the theoretical problem of accidental disengagement. If there's an axis lock knife you really like, you could always grind down the lock buttons a bit (I know someone who has done that, turned out nice), but I personally don't often buy knives that I feel need this kind of tweaking right out of the box.

Joe
 
I tend to agree with Joe's remark here "I personally don't often buy knives that I feel need this kind of tweaking right out of the box."

However, I was thinking that if the lock buttons are considered to be overly prominent from the handle, wouldn't Benchmade have looked at that issue?, and perhaps have made a (business) compromise with the "ease of engagement".

Just a thought. :)
 
the axis lock is superb...

there's 2 SPRINGS in there...and it's gonna be real hard to break both springs...i broke 1 and it still functions ok...'cept opening it up is a bit easier...i'm really gonna have to send that in real soon...heheh...
 
Having owned damn near every folder locking mechanism on the market, 250+ folders - custom and production, I have yet to find a lock I have more confidence in than the Axis lock.

Right now my collection consists of about 35 folders, about 25 of which are Axis locks.

IMO the only lock I've seen in the same league are some frame locks (eg Sebenza), and the Spyderco Chinook.

Contrary to what seems to be popular opinion I have seen almost as many frame locks (% wise) that would fail the spine whack test as I have liner locks, most of them being custom.

In all of my time here I have yet to see/hear a bonified failure of an Axis lock. (aside from a broken spring or two but that is not a lock failure)
 
I think you have to listen to the people here with experience with many of the different locking systems. Someone who looks at an Axis lock and says "OH MY GOD! The locks on the handle! I might disengage it!" but doesn't have any pratical experience with Axis locks shouldn't be used to form an opinion about the lock. Many people here own many folders and as you see many are most comfortable with the Axis lock. Sure, it COULD fail, anything can happen, but if it will have less of a chance of failing than anything else what are you going to do?? Never buy a folding knife??

People keep worring about accidentally tripping the lock. To me this sees damn near impossible. You can't just bump it lose, it takes some pressure and force to slide the lock open. If you keep your fingers where they belong they don't get anywhere near the lock. Only a bumbling idiot could disengage the lock while using the knife, and if they do that they deserve to lose a finger! :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by wire eddge
As far as the lockback goes, do some spine wacking tests with the ones you admire and you will find that many are insufficient.
Click to expand...

The lockbacks I admire are from Spyderco, Extrema Ratio, Benchmade, and Cold Steel. All of my Cold Steels are pass; all of my Spydies are safe; I don't own any lockbacks from Benchmade; and the Extrema Ratio will be on its way.

For the most part, I'd bet that an axis lock is stronger than a lockback, but at least one axis lock (on a 710HS) has failed a spinewhack test. Benchmade corrected the problem and the user was happy afterwards.
 
Lets look at the potential to unlock the axis lock by inadvertantly hitting th lock with your fingers.

As an analogy, we can think of it like a Glock pistol.

It will not bite you unless you pull the trigger. Watch where you hands are, where your fingers are and all is well in whoville.

Under stress, where you are thinking about the potential incoming and potentially dying during a building search, many find they have their finger on the trigger unknowingly [ caused by the stress and concentrated attention elsewhere other than their trigger finger, like maybe perhaps their pucker factor ].

The axis lock is going to be about the same way in a manner of speaking. A very strong lock until inadvertant stress induced puckering gets one to the same position as the finger on the trigger analogy.

Glocks being one of the safest guns on the market also have their share of inadvetent AD/ND's dueto the design.

Murphy sits waiting, head him off at the pass and negate potentials under duress when possible.

Now if we had a database of axis locks that has been used under extreme duress in combat to work from [ like the glock ], we may see more actual cases of locks being unlocked at the worst time like the glocks going off at the worst time and when the operator didn't want it to. It's a very real possibility that the lock postioning may be an issue under stress and life and death encounters which will never be brought to light as that knife would have to involve itself in quite a few real world struggles to even become an issue, if in fact the lock is an issue at all.

One can only look at the design and attempt to determine for themselves if it is something they want to leave to chance at the worst possible time in their lives [ under threat of death ].

No thank you, I'll stay with the lockbacks and certain framelocks and still worry that somehow murphy is there still waiting on my brain fading to bite me.

Brownie
 
beluga :

Benchmade claims that it can withstand 800+ lbs. pressure
Click to expand...

This is meaningless, it is like saying the knife weighs 100 inches. Lbs is a measurement of force not pressure and besides lock strength should be measured in torque which is in.lbs not force.

Using force is meaningless as any lock could easily take 1000 lbs if you applied it straight down on the lock so as to create no torque. The limit here would be how much force does it take to squash/shear the steel which is tremendous even for cheap steels.

Those numbers in general are more hype than useful data as locks rarely fail by breaking under controlled vertical loads. I have broken locks easily under far less force than manufacturer statistics because people do not apply forces as seen in that type of testing which has a viced knife and a press.

Knives fail generally to dynamic shock, and lateral loads which twist sideways on the lock and will do so under far less effort than the above type of break tests would have the average person think.


-Cliff
 
I agree Cliff.

I would much rather see how much "torque" a knife is rated for. Put it in a vise, make an adapter to allow you to put a torque wrench on the blade, and twist away.

That would have value to me.
 
The 800lbs, be they inch pounds or proton pounds, was for the 5000 model, which, as an automatic, may have an extra safety supplementing the axis lock.

I think that the axis lock, where the locking bar is wider than the blade and the scales and liners, can be regarded as one of the most fool-resistant locks.
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
No thank you, I'll stay with the lockbacks and certain framelocks and still worry that somehow murphy is there still waiting on my brain fading to bite me.

Brownie
Click to expand...

I think you could argue lockbacks and framelocks have the same chance, if not a greater chance, of being disengaged at the wrong time as well.

Maybe some of you are preparing to go into combat for the Military and plan on knifing people. If so, then I think you may have a reason to worry. I don't ever plan to have to use a knife on an attacker. The chances of that happening in my life time are very rare. I just don't want the lock to fail if I'm cutting into something tough and putting a lot of force on the lock.
 
The only lock I do not worry about, I own.

Thats the ER MPC lockback thats has the passive crossbolt safety as a physical backup to the primary lockback.

It will be physically impossible to release the lock until the crossbolt safety has been "unsafed", like on a shotgun.

The Blade-tech Tarani Kerambits are lockbacks with the lock purposely set to not disengage until the lock has been fully depressed, and that unlikely in any situation except a concerted effort to unlock it.

There are locks out there more and more that are designed around safety conscious people who worry about Murphy being there at the qrong time.

I never plan on using my knives anymore than anyone else in a life and death encounter, but I buy them with that potential in mind. You don't have to be in the military to be involved in combat with your knife one day on the streets of the USA.

Forethought ladies and gentlemen.

I don't plan to's can easily turn into "Oh ****" 's prety quick.

Brownie
 
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