Axis vs tri ad

Which is better?

Triad. Usually no play and I've never heard of one failing legitimately. I've owned Axis and Triad locked knives and I'm done with Axis locks. I've become a back-lock fan via the Triad. I wish BM, Spyderco, and some of my other fave knife companies would adopt the Triad.
 
http://www.benchmade.com/about_knives/locking_mechanisms.asp
http://www.coldsteel.com/triadlock1.html

Looking at the designs, I think the Tri-Ad's true strength is that it would be harder to make it fail mechanically or make it malfunction. I mean, if we're talking strength in relation to stress, fatigue and the materials just breaking, then I think the only reason the Tri-Ad would be "stronger" is because there's much more material in the lock-up. If you look at the actuald esign though, it seems like the plane that the blade and the lock engage on intersects the hole drilled for the pivot; if there wasn't so much material, I would consider that a weakness, especially because it forms that 90 degree angle. On the other hand, the lock-bar of the AXIS lock rests on a flat portion of the blade directly behind the pivot. Either way, though, stress seems more likely to make the blade itself break than any parts of either lock.

The only advantage I see the Tri-Ad locking having as far as stress-related strengths goes, is the way the stop-pin and the lock itself interact with each other. I for some reason the rocker pin or the lock itself snapped, the lock would be wedged in between the stop-pin and it wouldn't move forward. Then if you look at an AXIS lock, you see that if the stop-pin fails, the blade can fold upward quite a bit; with the Tri-Ad, that even if the stop-pin did fail the blade would not be able to travel as much as on an AXIS if at all. Personally though I haven't seen any other stop-pins than the one on the Kulgera, and the engagement to the liners is the weak-link in my eye--the diameter might be substantial but the actual engagement size to the liners is pretty insignificant. I think I've seen an HK model where it went straight-through the liners and scales though, and I see that as a stronger design--maybe even using the thumb-stud as a stop-pin. Either way, I think the stop-pin on my Kulgera is pretty weak, and the ability for the blade to fold upward if it breaks kinda sucks.

The bigger distinguishing advantages of the two designs come in the context that you want to use them though. I mean, one might say the AXIS lock is safer because of the one hand opening and closing, but on the other hand the Tri-Ad would be way less prone to mechanical failure or malfunction in a survival situation. I mean, imagine getting dirt and gravel in the spring enclosure for an AXIS lock in the middle of nowhere; How are you going to get it out of there? Even if you can open up the blade, is the lock-bar going to engage? Maybe you can find a stick to shove in there, but is that really a secure fix? Say you're cleaning out game, your hand and knife way up there, and some muscle or bone pushes the lock-bar back without you even realizing it and you fold it on your hand? All of these don't seem to be an issue with the Tri-Ad; seems at worst you'd need to find a small stick to dig out dirt from the engagement notch.

I don't often find myself in survival situations though, so I find the AXIS lock perfectly strong for using in the right context, when you have the right tools around and everything is optimal. It opens and closes with one hand which is very nice and arguably "safe", and if there's no worry about not having the right tools for maintenance or tools better suited for the job you're trying to do with it, then I don't see why you would want anything else, and I don't see how its lock would break before its blade would. I mean, if you're applying that much stress to it I would think you'd need a fixed blade, but that being said I think that's where the Tri-Ad's virtues are clearer--suppose you went hiking and lost your fixed blade, you'd probably be a lot more thankful you had a Tri-Ad lock than an AXIS lock. First time you needed to do maintenance or folded it onto your fingers because of malfunction, you're pretty much screwed.

Anyway those are just my modest ( yet lengthy ) opinions, even though I don't own a Cold Steel knife, and only a BM Kulgera as an AXIS lock. It's just what I would theorize based on the design drawings and what I can observe from looking at my AXIS lock. I want to see the weight-hang test, or at least get more details--how much weight are we talking about, what part of the lock failed, etc. I've Googled and can't find anything, and I kind of suspect that whatever weight it was was something completely impractical and inappropriate for a folder. I mean, are we talking in terms of an AXIS lock failing at 200 pounds and a Tri-Ad at 300, or are we talking about putting a whole thousand pounds on the Tri-Ad and it never breaking? If not, I don't see how it grants much merit to the argument of it being stronger, I think it's just the logical conclusion to come to when you look at the difference in the amount of material used. Either way, what I would be interested in knowing is if the Tri-Ad lock fails at x number pounds, then what would a fixed blade snap at? I mean, I just get the feeling we're talking about forces that would not be replicated in any real-life task.
 
I see on this thread where several have said the Tri-Ad cannot be one-hand closed? I can easily one-hand close both of my tri-ad knives. Hold it edge up with thumb in bolster area, depress the lockbar with your middle finger, partially close blade with index finger, rotate knife 90 degrees to the left to get thumb out of slot area, complete blade closure with index finger.

Maybe I just have a strong middle finger!:D
 
Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Will either lock hold the blade open, long after the blade itself has failed or broken? Probably.

Beyond that point, does relative lock strength even matter? (No.)
If it does, how can you test it practically? (You can't.)

I don't understand why people are saying either lock is stronger than the other, as though empirical proof exists somewhere. It doesn't.

When a folding knife is used hard, or abused, say by prying or batoning, it is always the weakest link that fails first. Sometimes the lock fails. Sometimes the blade snaps off, or the frame gets deformed, allowing the stop pin to pop out, or the pivot pin to shatter, or whatever. Once such a thing happens, the knife is broken, and lock strength is a mute point.
In the case of any knife with an axis or tri-ad lock, it is a reasonable bet (assuming you didn't get a lemon) that the lock will not be the weakest link, and will not be the first part to fail.

Testing the locks for any strength beyond that point isn't really practical, or applicable, so why worry about which may or may not be slightly stronger, or which may have held the knife open slightly longer, if the blade hadn't already snapped?

Using a folding knife to do anything other than cut is an act of either desparation or stupidity - or curiosity, in the case of a knife destruction test. If you're looking to prevent the loss of your fingers under such circumstances, either lock seems a prime candidate.
Which is truly, functionally, practically, unequivocably better? You will never know.

Right on!:thumbup:
 
I see on this thread where several have said the Tri-Ad cannot be one-hand closed? I can easily one-hand close both of my tri-ad knives. Hold it edge up with thumb in bolster area, depress the lockbar with your middle finger, partially close blade with index finger, rotate knife 90 degrees to the left to get thumb out of slot area, complete blade closure with index finger.

Maybe I just have a strong middle finger!:D

Well, my real point was that the AXIS lock is pretty much the best one-hand opening and closing lock available--well that I know about. All you have to do to close it is pull the lock-bar and flick your wrist a little bit. Most of the time I find my liner-locks to be clumsier than that, and there's always a little bit of twisting or turning the blade and a little bit of putting my fingers between the handle and the blade.

I don't own a Cold Steel or a mid-lock back lock so I don't really have experience one-hand closing like you're talking about, but you have to admit it sounds like a pretty clumsy operation compared to "pull-lock, flick". Besides that, I'm sure that if someone had a strong enough pinky finger they could one-hand close a knife with its back-lock on the butt of the knife; doesn't mean it was supposed to be a one-hand closer.
 
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I have a new Recon 1 2010 with the triad lock but I like the Axis lock better. Its easier to use and can close it with one hand and not once do I ever worry about it failing.

I have a Mini Lawman with the Triad lock, and I close it with one hand with the greatest of ease. The key to getting this one work like that, plus the CS Black Rhino (Triad lock too) is to use some Slick 50 One Lube on the pivot...

To close these knives one handed, simply push in the release bar with your thumb. It won't be necessary to move the knife at all as the blade will drop easily.
 
Hard to compare the two locks because like the others have said they are different types of locks. Axis lock is hands down the easiest lock to use while the triad lock is the strongest period. Both are great for what they are. I personally like the triad more only because I have a soft spot for lockbacks and dig the brute strength.

I have a Benchmade 930 Kulgera with Axis lock, as well as two CS knives with the Triad: the Mini Lawman and the Black Rhino.

I find it easier to close the Triad locked knife one handed than the BM 930.

To each his own.
 
Why is everyone saying the Tri-Ad is the strongest? Is there some kind of data sheet available for this, or is it just conjecture based on its design? I don't know anything about it, so I'm just wondering.

Data sheet? I haven't seen one. However, check out Ankerson's videos, the hard use videos...
 
And, erm, some "interesting" videos...

For the Tri-Ad lock, I find it interesting the mere addition of a blade-stop pin to an ordinary mid-lock can make an entire world of difference.

With Benchmade's Axis lock, it seems like a lot of people have problems with omega springs breaking. Cold Steel actually used to use a licensed version of it before switching to the Tri-Ad lock.

I wonder if the switch is more of a business decision. There's some talk of owning rights vs licensing, and such. I also wonder if it's cheaper to build a mid-lock with one extra pin than an Axis lock derivative.

Also, there are some other things to consider.

If you are concerned about the knife blade breaking, perhaps you would be better off with a fixed blade or a different tool entirely.

Also, I think the best steel the Tri-Ad lock is available in is AUS-8, while the Axis Lock is available in "premium" steel.

From what I've read, the heat treat that AUS-8 gets is very important to it's performance. FWIW, I have several knives with AUS-8 (Cold Steel), others with 154 CM (Benchmades and Emersons), S30V (two Zero Tolerance and a Benchmade), one with M390 (Benchmade), plus other assorted steels. In my experience, the AUS-8 blades are just fine, take an edge easily and retain it adequately for my uses. In practice, I've noticed NO DIFFERENCE between the edge retention of these various steels, when I sharpen them to hair popping sharp and use them normally. They ALL get dull depending on what I'm doing to them.

So, while I like the "premium" steels, will I go out of my way to buy a knife with them? Not a chance...
 
Reliability (locks every time) - Axis Lock
Strength (force to fail the lock) - Probably Tri-ad lock, dunno for sure.

The tri-ad lock does one thing. It sells knives. It certainly makes me want an American Lawman or Spartan. It also makes me want one of the old style XL Voyagers before they're gone.
 
Read too much about omega spring failure. For me the omega springs are the weakest link in the Axis' design.

In triad locks it's weakness is the accidental unlocking by accidental depression of lockbar. I'll take a choice of possible failure of my own doing than omega spring failure anyway.
 
I have a Benchmade 930 Kulgera with Axis lock, as well as two CS knives with the Triad: the Mini Lawman and the Black Rhino.

I find it easier to close the Triad locked knife one handed than the BM 930

That's a hard one to believe. you must have awfully strong thumb. :confused:

I bought the 2010 Recon 1 because it's large and featherweight for it's size.

Unless you're into spinewhacking and overstriking, the triad is not the big deal that it's made out to be IMO and I hate that they cut out 1/2 of the tang to accomodate the deep engagement of the lock. It looks bad/weak - but it's probably just my imagination that the blade would break because of that deep notch.

That said; you shouldn't be batoning with a folder and if you do - disengage the locking mechanism and the blade simply become a wedge, instead of stressing your locking mechanism and messing it up. :thumbup:
 
That's a hard one to believe. you must have awfully strong thumb. :confused:

I bought the 2010 Recon 1 because it's large and featherweight for it's size.

Unless you're into spinewhacking and overstriking, the triad is not the big deal that it's made out to be IMO and I hate that they cut out 1/2 of the tang to accomodate the deep engagement of the lock. It looks bad/weak - but it's probably just my imagination that the blade would break because of that deep notch.

That said; you shouldn't be batoning with a folder and if you do - disengage the locking mechanism and the blade simply become a wedge, instead of stressing your locking mechanism and messing it up. :thumbup:

I assure you that my Triad locked folders are easier, for me, to close one handed than my Benchmade 930...

So much easier, and my thumb is just a normal thumb (as far as I know :D) that I prefer the ease of closing of the Triad locked folders to the Kulgera. It's certainly a function of the Slick 50 One Lube that I have in there.
 
Read too much about omega spring failure. For me the omega springs are the weakest link in the Axis' design.

In triad locks it's weakness is the accidental unlocking by accidental depression of lockbar. I'll take a choice of possible failure of my own doing than omega spring failure anyway.

I'm new to Axis locks ... only had my first one a decade ago.

Never had an Omega spring failure.

The Tri-Ad is a fairly new design.

I'd love to read about the Omega spring failures that you comment about.

In anything less than one half of a percentage of of failure is amazing.

Benchmade doesn't have a yearly sale where they sale seconds and returns.

I'd love to see links of legitimate Omega spring failures.

I want to know.
 
I believe that great locks really help sell folders.

I own a Benchmade mostly because I just had to try an Axis lock. I am tempted by the Lawman and Recon 1 mainly because of the Tri-Ad lock. They seem like decent folders, but the great lock is the only element that truly tempts me. Both the Axis and the Tri-Ad are great locks and both sell a lot of folders.

The Tri-Ad lock appears to be responsible for a major improvement in the opinions people here have about Cold Steel products. It is kind of neat to see it happening.
 
I believe that great locks really help sell folders.

I own a Benchmade mostly because I just had to try an Axis lock. I am tempted by the Lawman and Recon 1 mainly because of the Tri-Ad lock. They seem like decent folders, but the great lock is the only element that truly tempts me. Both the Axis and the Tri-Ad are great locks and both sell a lot of folders.

The Tri-Ad lock appears to be responsible for a major improvement in the opinions people here have about Cold Steel products. It is kind of neat to see it happening.

I feel the same way ... but then I think ... I just want to cut stuff and want ease of opening and closing.

Why would I need anything stronger than a slipjoint ?

I don't.

Back to the AXIS.
 
a spring in my oldstyle recon 1 broke about a week after i got the knife... the lock still works great, i still use the knife. I prefer axis just because it makes the pocket friendly sharp object more fun to play with
 
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