Axis vs tri ad

[Brian Sargent]

Who said they were lying?

Does ultimate strength make the CS lock better all around?

I open and lose a knife thousands more times than I test its' strength.

 

[cziv]

I assure you that my Triad locked folders are easier, for me, to close one handed than my Benchmade 930...

So much easier, and my thumb is just a normal thumb (as far as I know ) that I prefer the ease of closing of the Triad locked folders to the Kulgera. It's certainly a function of the Slick 50 One Lube that I have in there.

My 2010 Recon 1 has a really strong spring...suppose they all do. The only lube that I have on the knife is a drop of oil on both sides of the pivot washers. I don't see how oil would decrease the pressure required to disengage the lock, but more lubrication may be worth a try.

My BM 710 & 940 both have silky smooth axis locks.

 

[Folderguy]

My 2010 Recon 1 has a really strong spring...suppose they all do. The only lube that I have on the knife is a drop of oil on both sides of the pivot washers. I don't see how oil would decrease the pressure required to disengage the lock, but more lubrication may be worth a try.

My BM 710 & 940 both have silky smooth axis locks.

Perhaps it's the way I disengage the lock on the Black Rhino and Mini Lawman. I don't use my thumb pad or the tip of the thumb, but holding the knife parallel to the floor with the sharp edge of the blade on the bottom, and with my four fingers in the finger grooves and the knife resting in them, place my thumb over the lock bar and press down on it with the pressure point about 1/2 inch from the first joint of the thumb, or about 3/4" from the thumb tip.

When I got the two knives with the Triad lock, they were a bear to get to operate smoothly. Not any more. I One Lubed not just the pivot but also the lock and all the bearing surfaces. It's now a breeze. Other lubricants I tried did not work as well (WD-40, 3-in-One, and Blaster PB50).

While the lock on my Benchmade is silky smooth also, getting the lock to disengage requires some serious squeezing at the tips of my thumb and first finger (if closing one-handed), which is a bit painful, that added to the necessity to get the butt of the knife handle to seat correctly in the palm of my hand without slipping so the pressure backwards on the locking studs doesn't make the knife slip away, makes for a rather difficult-to-close knife, although it is silky once the lock disengages. It will probably be my first and last Axis-lock knife.

 

[Dr Heelhook]

I've never actually used a Tri-ad lock knife, but I love the mid lock back and the Tri-ad seems like merely an improvement of the lock back, so I'd have to go with that one. Axis is nice, but those omega spring seem a little bit more prone to breakage.

 

[mrdavidross321]

Who said they were lying?

Does ultimate strength make the CS lock better all around?

I open and lose a knife thousands more times than I test its' strength.

lol nobody i was just commenting

i think its stronger but i dunno if its really better i think its personal preferance on what kinda knife you want

like people already said both locks will hold longer than the blade or handle so to me they are kinda equal

 

[Mattman888]

I'm new to Axis locks ... only had my first one a decade ago.

Never had an Omega spring failure.

The Tri-Ad is a fairly new design.

I'd love to read about the Omega spring failures that you comment about.

In anything less than one half of a percentage of of failure is amazing.

Benchmade doesn't have a yearly sale where they sale seconds and returns.

I'd love to see links of legitimate Omega spring failures.

I want to know.

My mini grip had both omega springs fail within a month, it probably was a bad batch of omega springs or something. If you don't believe me i got the repair sheet but I don't really wanna go and find it...

 

[a2d2]

cold steel dont lie when they say some of their folders can hold 400lbs+ before they break

Didn't the triad lock hold around 625 lbs or so on their video? If so, how can it be said to be the strongest lock around today when Cold Steel tested Spydercos' Chinook and it held quite a bit more(If I remember correctly)? I may be mistaken but didn't Cold Steels' test show the Chinook holding over a thousand pounds?
I'm sure if Benchmade wanted the axis lock to hold 2000 lbs or more, they could beef up the lock and frame to meet that demand(same lock just beefed up). It seems silly to claim one lock is stronger than all others when most locks available today could be made as strong as a company desires.
I believe alot of folks have decided that the triad is stronger than the axis based on Ankerson's tests. Are the Griptillian and the recon 1 equal platforms for such a comparison?
PS, I'm not knocking either lock, I don't really care which lock is the strongest.

 

[vwb563]

Read too much about omega spring failure. For me the omega springs are the weakest link in the Axis' design.

In triad locks it's weakness is the accidental unlocking by accidental depression of lockbar. I'll take a choice of possible failure of my own doing than omega spring failure anyway.

I don't think you have much to worry about as far as accidentally disengaging a tri-ad lock. They lock very very deeply. A lot deeper than normal lockbacks for sure. It would as hard to accidentally disengage a tri-ad as it would a axis lock.

 

[cziv]

While the lock on my Benchmade is silky smooth also, getting the lock to disengage requires some serious squeezing at the tips of my thumb and first finger (if closing one-handed), which is a bit painful, that added to the necessity to get the butt of the knife handle to seat correctly in the palm of my hand without slipping so the pressure backwards on the locking studs doesn't make the knife slip away, makes for a rather difficult-to-close knife, although it is silky once the lock disengages. It will probably be my first and last Axis-lock knife.

That's definitely a warranty issue. I've bought and sold a lot of BM Axis lock folders along the way and never had the problem you're describing. I'd call Benchmade and send it back. For a little bit of postage, they'll fix that for you and they're pretty fast getting them back in your hands again. (don't email them, they don't seem to get around to emails very well). I don't recall if you live in the US (shipping charges) but that's what I'd do. That's too bad, sorry to hear about it.

 

[A.P.F.]

Both locks are superbly designed and ridiculously strong. For day to day use, it is hard to beat the speed and convenience of an Axis lock, however, when I really want security during tough use, I don't think you can beat a Tri-Ad lock.

 

[Folderguy]

That's definitely a warranty issue. I've bought and sold a lot of BM Axis lock folders along the way and never had the problem you're describing. I'd call Benchmade and send it back. For a little bit of postage, they'll fix that for you and they're pretty fast getting them back in your hands again. (don't email them, they don't seem to get around to emails very well). I don't recall if you live in the US (shipping charges) but that's what I'd do. That's too bad, sorry to hear about it.

Well, I've been told (here on BF) that the Kulgera has those Axis studs that are too short for easy closing of the blade, and that it's a design flaw.

There's another thing. I've seriously modified this knife, although not the lock in any way. There's no way Benchmade would even consider "fixing" it, as it's been taken apart many times, had new scales made for it, had the blade sanded down ("hand rubbed"), had the spine rounded off, and in general turned into a very different knife, appearance wise, than when it was new. Not a snowball's chance they'd even want to start dealing with it.

Here's a pic so you can have an idea of what I'm referring to:

 

[vwb563]

Cancel.

 

[vwb563]

Both locks are superbly designed and ridiculously strong. For day to day use, it is hard to beat the speed and convenience of an Axis lock, however, when I really want security during tough use, I don't think you can beat a Tri-Ad lock.

:thumbup: +1 Perfectly said!

 

[misterjuiceman]

Why is everyone saying the Tri-Ad is the strongest? Is there some kind of data sheet available for this, or is it just conjecture based on its design? I don't know anything about it, so I'm just wondering.

I'm wondering this also. I think the axis lock is as strong as they come, and that if a knife were available in both lock varieties, the axis lock would probably come out on top, or at least equal to the tri-ad.

 

[hardheart]

Didn't the triad lock hold around 625 lbs or so on their video? If so, how can it be said to be the strongest lock around today when Cold Steel tested Spydercos' Chinook and it held quite a bit more(If I remember correctly)? I may be mistaken but didn't Cold Steels' test show the Chinook holding over a thousand pounds?

When did CS test and publish results for any other company's knife?

Spyderco puts the Chinook in the MBC/extra heavy duty category. That is 200 pounds of force for every inch of blade. That means the 3.75" Chinook blade should handle at least 750 pounds applied one inch from the pivot.

Sal says the axis lock is in the same rating class http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3063

Cold Steel hung 300 pounds 4.5" from the pivot of a large Espada for four days. That's a rating of 1350 pounds per inch. Andrew Demko did 658 pounds 4" from the pivot on an XL Espada - 2632 pounds per inch.

 

[a2d2]

When did CS test and publish results for any other company's knife?

Spyderco puts the Chinook in the MBC/extra heavy duty category. That is 200 pounds of force for every inch of blade. That means the 3.75" Chinook blade should handle at least 750 pounds applied one inch from the pivot.

Sal says the axis lock is in the same rating class http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3063

Cold Steel hung 300 pounds 4.5" from the pivot of a large Espada for four days. That's a rating of 1350 pounds per inch. Andrew Demko did 658 pounds 4" from the pivot on an XL Espada - 2632 pounds per inch.

I never said Cold Steel published results, what I'm referring to, I believe, came from one of Sal's posts which mentioned Cold Steel testing the lock on a Chinook and sharing the results with Spyderco. They wanted to base their back lock on the Chinooks' lock. As far as Spydercos' MBC rating system, I believe that 200 lbs per inch is the minimum to qualify not the maximum ammount of weight tested on the lock.

 

[a2d2]

Spyderco puts the Chinook in the MBC/extra heavy duty category. That is 200 pounds of force for every inch of blade. That means the 3.75" Chinook blade should handle at least 750 pounds applied one inch from the pivot.

I thought that for the Chinook to attain an MBC rating it had to hold 750 lbs from the tip? Maybe I don't have a very good grasp on the rating system. I was under the impression that a longer blade had to hold more weight at the tip to qualify?

 

[hardheart]

As far as Spydercos' MBC rating system, I believe that 200 lbs per inch is the minimum to qualify not the maximum ammount of weight tested on the lock.

Yes, as I posted, it has to hold at least 750 pounds one inch from the pivot, 375 two inches away, etc.

I thought that for the Chinook to attain an MBC rating it had to hold 750 lbs from the tip? Maybe I don't have a very good grasp on the rating system. I was under the impression that a longer blade had to hold more weight at the tip to qualify?

They apply the load a certain distance from the pivot. They multiply the load times the distance to get pounds/inch of force required to make the lock fail. They take that amount and divide by the length of the blade. This is the lock rating. Take the XL Espada example - 658 pounds 4" from the pivot. That is the same torque as 2632 pounds one inch from the pivot (658*4). The blade is 7.5" long. By the Spyderco rating method, that means the XL Espada holds at least 351 pounds per inch of blade length (2632/7.5). If you ground the blade down, the lock rating goes up, while the actual initial test would remain the same - 658 lbs at 4". Four inches of handle or four inches of blade, it is still the distance from the pivot. So if that specific lock were on a Millie instead, it would be rated at 658 pounds because the Militaryy has a 4" blade instead of 7.5".

 

[a2d2]

Yes, as I posted, it has to hold at least 750 pounds one inch from the pivot, 375 two inches away, etc.

They apply the load a certain distance from the pivot. They multiply the load times the distance to get pounds/inch of force required to make the lock fail. They take that amount and divide by the length of the blade. This is the lock rating. Take the XL Espada example - 658 pounds 4" from the pivot. That is the same torque as 2632 pounds one inch from the pivot (658*4). The blade is 7.5" long. By the Spyderco rating method, that means the XL Espada holds at least 351 pounds per inch of blade length (2632/7.5).

Ok, I'll go with that since I'm not an expert.

 

[a2d2]

This is where I get confused.

Sal writes, on the Spyderco forum, "A knife is put into a vise and a probe applies pressure to the handle. The distance from the pivot pin to the probe is measured in inches. This is the leverage arm. If the probe takes 100 lbs of pressure to break the lock and the probe is 3 inches from the pivot, then the amount of force is measured as; "3 inches times 100 lbs equals 300 inch lbs of force to break the lock (or blade or ?) We then established a standard for our own knives. We decided that we would use the inch lbs of force to break the lock times the length of the blade to establish thresh holds.
...MBC is 200 inch/lbs of force is required for every inch of blade length to break the lock. This means that a 2" blade times 200 inch/lbs of force equals 400 inch/lbs of force is required to break the lock." http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8223

I took this to mean that they used a standard length from the probe to the pivot to find inch lbs of force required to break the lock(not from the tip), then multiplied this times the blade length to find the minimum threshold for their MBC rating. So for a 3 in blade to attain an MBC rating it had to hold 600 lbs near the tip.