Backpacking RC-4

My scout troop had a trip to philmont planned. After heading how hippe and caned it was, I walked away from my deposit and fundraising. People still call me crazy for it, but I'd rather be realistic.

I don't think it's fair to assume this guys a total hippe nutjob. A lot of 70 year old guys, and most NRA instructors I've had around here are in the small knife camp.

I agree it's situational, but i wouldn't rush to jump on this prof.
 
I wouldn't call him a hippie nut job. I just don't think hes very into survival and bushcraft. I don't think he has ever had a time where a big knife was truly worth its weight. He is an ultralight backpacker, as am I. He mostly hikes trails like the AT carries pre-packed meals and cooks on a alcohol stove. Which I do too (there is nothing wrong with it). But when I told him it was my luxury item, it really is. I like to build fires and baton wood and when there is nothing to do I practice building traps or other various bushcraft type stuff. If I ever need the knife for an emergency situation its there along with the knowledge of using it. So in the trip I hope to find time to baton a little wood and maybe build a simple figure 4 or two.
 
It dosen't sound like your teacher really knows what he's talking about. I wonder how much time he's REALLY spent in the dirt?! Carry what makes you comfy and gets done what you need to get done, heck 15lbs. is not a lot of weight at all. I think your good to go.
 
Dizwolf said:
My scout troop had a trip to philmont planned. After heading how hippe and caned it was, I walked away from my deposit and fundraising. People still call me crazy for it, but I'd rather be realistic.

I don't think it's fair to assume this guys a total hippe nutjob. A lot of 70 year old guys, and most NRA instructors I've had around here are in the small knife camp.

I agree it's situational, but i wouldn't rush to jump on this prof.
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It's not his choice of knife that's upsetting, it's the way he handled it. He took the OP's knife and passed it around while ridiculing him. That's not something that an educator should do under any circumstances. He may not be a nutjob, but he sounds like an ass.
 
choltzapple said:
It's not his choice of knife that's upsetting, it's the way he handled it. He took the OP's knife and passed it around while ridiculing him. That's not something that an educator should do under any circumstances. He may not be a nutjob, but he sounds like an ass.
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That, I totally agree with. But, not best to directly challenge those who grade you. I'd be subtle yet confident about it.
 
Pilot1 said:
If he insists on packing out your urine and feces, run away....fast. I cancelled both my subscriptions to Backpacker and Outdoors magazine due to the far left bias and the whole packing out human waste thing. Trash, yes, poop, no. :barf:

I think the RC-4 is the pefect backpacking/camping knife. Can't wait to hear the field trials. 4 vs SAK.
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I hear ya! I cancelled Backpacker myself. It got to the point it was little more than car camping. Nothing too far from civilization and too much "green" crap. I think I gave up when I read something in there talking about how no one should ever start fires in the wilderness these days. Just use your stove. WTF?!

When you're camping and this dude pulls out his nail file knife, I suggest you cut it in half with the RC-4 and go on about your business. You may not get the best grade but let's face it, what do grades really get you anyway in this life?:D
 
VaughnT said:
The guy sounds like an arrogant ass and I'd call him out on it. Did he have permission to handle your knife and pass it around all the while going on and on about how silly you were?

Were it I, I'd get him out in the woods and then challenge him to a test of skills with the different knives. Yea, a big blade isn't really needed 90% of the time, but a keychain SAK is about as useless as teats on a boar for 90% of the stuff you need a blade for. Makes a good toothpick, but that's it.

Take this opportunity to show him the light and teach all of them about simple woods skills like baton splitting, fuzz sticks, carving spoons, etc. Strike some sparks to get a fire. Basically, carry in a half-dozen different knives and teach them about their differences and what they each bring to the game. Teach them about edge geometry, basic sharpening, whittling, dressing, whatever you can think of.

Show them that the "professor" doesn't have all the knowledge like he thinks he does.
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I personally wouldnt do this, as you can do most things without a large knife. In fact he would likely show you were the ass. Batoning is fun, but is rarely needed. A big blade is a fun thing that can rarely be very important. I just take them for fun and enjoy to use them. But bashing someone that likes a small blade is the same as bashing those that like a big blade. It just comes down to what you us your knife for.
 
to each his own, but when the fit hits the shan he'll wish he had an adequate survival blade. Sounds like a fun class though have fun, and try to learn all you can.
 
who really cares what others think ,do the class, get the grade and move on... no need in making the teacher mad over the silly subject(and him fail you) ...let him be the jerk with a closed mind about the knife and enlighten him in the field...
 
texastonydobbs said:
who really cares what others think ,do the class, get the grade and move on... no need in making the teacher mad over the silly subject(and him fail you) ...let him be the jerk with a closed mind about the knife and enlighten him in the field...
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Yeah thats the plan.
 
I'd wait to see what the instructor has. Sometimes people surprise you.

Went to Belize our Honeymoon. One of our guides, was, shall we say, less gear intensive than your average Rat Pack member.

He had a swiss army type folder and a 4 C Cell Mag Light in his backpack, and a Machete in the truck. He took us hiking, caving, exploring in Mayan ruins, to waterfalls (he had the most unconventional swimming style, but was hell of a strong swimmer), on a canoe trip, etc. The man knew his local wildlife very well. He taught us a bunch about the medicinal and food value of the local flora. He used that folder for just about everything. Along the way we learned that since the age of 7, he lived in the jungle on his own. Tough old guy.

In this case, it was not the arrow, but the indian, that mattered most...but I believe a bit more kit would have made his life easier!

Chris
 
I wouldn't challenge him at all. I have hiked miles and miles and never carried or needed a "large" fixed blade knife. I am also a NOLS graduate, and have taught outdoor living skills and outdoor leadership skills. All that time I never carried a large knife. Everything I ever needed could be done with a multi tool and a Spyderco folder.

Now, that's life on a well maintained trail with a large pack filled with lots of "comfie things". If you want to go more traditional, more "bushcrafty" then a fixed blade starts becomming more and more important. And if you want to enact a "Oh crap" situation then again, IMHO a fixed blade is more important.

I carry fixed blades now not because I have to, but because I like them. And I am getting more and more into minimalist packing where I am making shelters rather than setting up a tent, I am making fire rather than lighting a bic lighter and I am trying to learn more primitive skills as a means of self exploration.

But lets not judge our folding knife bretheren too harshly. Much of the backpacking world doesn't carry machete's or knives stuck to their pack. As a matter of fact there would have been a time that I would have seen a large knife and just shook my head.

Every bit of that said, I think you instructor is being a bit of a jerk, but he is entitled to his opinion. Would I take a key chain knife into the field? no... but again, I have done miles and miles in the bush with a Spyderco Delica and a buck folding tool.
 
Just to be clear I never told this story for people to criticize him. I just thought it was interesting to see how different people view the importance of a knife. I would feel comfortable doing most backpacking with a smaller knife. I don't think he is wrong for his choice in knives I just wouldn't make the same choice. I like knives and when I said it was my luxury item I really meant that.
 
With the right environment and correct gear, you can get by without a knife at all. Freeze dried food, aluminum poled tents, down or syn down sleeping bags, etc. However, I've always been taught that environments can change, gear, and supplies can get damaged or lost and survival depends on the tools attached to your body and your wits. Everything else is baggage.

Simple implements have helped me get home. I would never go into the woods without a decent knife attached to me, but that's just me.
 
Not sure where in SC you are, but I'm a Clemson grad. Took wilderness classes, instructed wilderness classes, and guided in that region myself.

At any rate, sorry your 'instructor' made an example of you. IMO he was trying to make a good point, just chose a lousy way of doing it. Emphasizing the importance of minimizing weight and carrying essentials = GOOD. Ostracizing a student and alienating a partner on a wilderness trip = BAD.

The reality is that most students, and inexperienced backpackers carry far too many things, too much weight, and their trip experience suffers. If people have a bad first experience at anything, they tend not to repeat it. That's not what any true outdoor professionals want.

I personally would have suggested you leave it at home, and suggested an alternative like a Leatherman Wave. Enough blades to get most any job done, and a saw for taking down heavy brush if needed. Like the other poster said -- back that up with a lightweight folder of some sort -- the reality is that it will get used 95% of the time.

Most, if not all of the areas you'll be going to are heavily used. Fires will likely be forbidden, and for good reason. All the deadfall has long been used up, and if they let every user cut down and burn everything, the reality is that the forest would be severely impacted worse than it already is. Backpacking stoves are plentiful, cheap, clean, and work great. There's just no need to make fires on the trail systems in that region.

If it was a wilderness hunting class/spike camp focus, it would be a different story. That being said, I personally know big game guides who carry nothing more than a Leatherman and can clean/field quarter a caribou with it faster than I can with a fixed skinning blade. On that type of trip, I'd suggest a small fixed blade and multi-tool backup.

IMO, machetes are for jungle use, clearing brush, or survival training. No need for them on established backpacking trails.

As for having a luxury item -- I fully understand, and do it all the time myself. There's a certain sentimental factor that develops with knives used in the field on memorable trips. That's where Izula-type models are nice.

My $0.02. To each his own.

Hope you ended up enjoying your class and had a nice trip.
 
choltzapple said:
It's not his choice of knife that's upsetting, it's the way he handled it. He took the OP's knife and passed it around while ridiculing him. That's not something that an educator should do under any circumstances. He may not be a nutjob, but he sounds like an ass.
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I agree with you that i think he didn't handle it right but we all make mistakes and this is one of his.
I think a person should do what makes them feel comfortable in the woods and not rationalize their decisions or challenge somebody else's about theirs.
 
blacksn95 said:
Leisure can lead to survival situation such as a fall or an animal attack.. and during that time a person with a larger blade to use as a tool may save their life.. Sometimes things are simple and a walk in the park.. but sometimes the walk in the park may cost you your life if your not prepared.. But to each their own I guess. When i go into the back country here in B.C. I usually have my shotgun and a 3+ inch blade for thoose oh shit situations..
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People carry the tools in the woods that they want and the woods does not dictate that with the exception of being in active Grizzly country. Obviously the longer your out there , the colder the weather , that situation can change. I've lived in the woods, bear country, most of my adult life. Have had probably three dozen bear encounters, one stand off and one major charge. Never had any problems. I choose to live in the 99.999% of the time when everything is fine and let the rest come as it may . When people go out in the woods THEY are the most dangerous thing out there and almost every animal knows that. Twenty years ago i had an encounter in the coast mnts with a wolf. We we're 15-20 ft from each other. It was an encounter of curiosity not aggression and was one of the best encounters i've ever had. The animals aren't the danger out there the elements can be and tools are a choice.
 
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