bad benchmade first impression

[Scurvy092]

I was specifically referring to the Emerson Kershaw collabs, and in the thread I saw there were people asking about other steel availability other than 8cr13Mov and people replied there wasn't. Has new news come to light since or was I just not specific enough.

If there is a Kershaw Emerson collab with higher quality steel please direct me so I can eagerly await it arrival.

All the Kershaw/Emerson knives will have 8cr.

The ZT/Emerson will have Elmax and M390 though...

 

[bodog]

Well, the Kershaw/Emerson collaborations cost what, 40 bucks or something? More likely 25 - 35 bucks on the street? For that price you'll be hard pressed to find something more than 8cr steel. 8cr steel is actually pretty decent when production is overseen by a company like Kershaw. What kind of steel would you like to see at, say, 100 bucks? They could use sandvik, but guys would bitch about the price point. They could use s30v, but then you have something competing with their flagship blur. They could use 154cm, but then guys would say it's not worth it and drop back to the 8cr or go a little higher for elmax or m390.

 

[bodog]

I don't know if it's just me, but Kai is trying to keep the higher quality stuff within ZT and they're simply dropping Kershaw to a value line? 10 years ago Kershaw was all over the map, some budget knives, some high end. I think they're trying to make a very distinct line between the two brands. If you want a high end KAI folder, look toward ZT. It is just a little disappointing to see the name Kershaw relegated to pretty much just chinese steel, though.

 

[-NB-]

How much did you pay for the 943? $180 bucks?

You can get most of the ZT line for under that to like $20 over...

I got a good deal on mine from the exchange. But I do agree about ZT. Tough to beat the bang for the buck

 

[spketch]

MrDabble-
Assuming your benchmade is defective, which may or may not be the case, its not fair to judge the whole company based on that one knife. Duds get through QC in any company, no matter the product or price point. When 1000's of knives are being made this is inevitable. The warranty service is in place to take care of you. Benchmade is not just pumping out junk with their name on it.

ZTs are great too but they don't all leave the factory perfect either. If buy a certain brand of factory knife thinking they will all be perfect then you're only setting yourself up for more disappointment. I am sorry to hear you couldn't get your 943 working.

 

[loonybin]

I've been happy with everything I've held or used from Kai. Sypyderco is also very good but I can't get over how ugly I feel they are. Everything I've held made by Benchmade has been a disappointment. Then again, everything I've held from Benchmade has been manufactured within this last year. Blade play being the worst and most consistent problem. Next is uneven grind lines. Axis lock not fully engaging is another. Benchmade may have made a good name for themselves over the years, but whatever they're doing now is crap compared to other companies in the same price range. Or maybe the production offerings in the past have been so limited or so terrible that a company like Benchmade earned a following by just giving a slightly better than crap product when none other was really available. Now that other companies are really stepping up and mass producing knives with actual quality control, innovative designs, unique and/or quality heat treated steels, and offering the same or better customer service, the faults of Benchmade are now apparent. The people that have followed Benchmade for years would understandably be hesitant to relinquish their loyalty.

I've owned Benchmade knives since the Axis lock debuted back in 1999 (a 710 in ATS-34), and definitely consider myself a fan, but I'm not blind to the QC issues they have had over the years. When it comes to Axis lock quality, I have never had an issue. Grind lines and sharpness are something that they have had an issue with for years. They hand sharpen their knives on a belt instead of using a machine to make even grinds, so having uneven bevels is understandable. Note, I don't think it's acceptable, but it's understandable. They should either invest in a jig for their hand sharpening to ensure even bevels, or give the guys Edge Pros or Wicked Edges, or get machines to do it and have the sharpening guys man those machines.

Their QC issues are fairly minor when you think about it. You don't hear complaints about poor heat treat, scales not fitting right, liner locks moving too far, sub-par materials, etc. You hear about blade centering, sharpness and uneven grinds for the most part. Pretty darn minor in the greater scheme of things, but for what they charge, we expect more (and should expect more).

This is what I was afraid of, because every big brand company in every market looks for the cheapest way to make their products. The bigger the brand, the easier to slip in crappy work slap on the tag and make a buck.

This is only my first benchmade, but I think its fair to say I'll be sticking by my normal brands after thus stretch. Blade fiend mentioned axis locks being loose, and it being a common thing.

I, personally, don't want a damn thing loose on my blade, especially when closed.

I really hope that this is a one time instance, I guess when the griptillian comes next week the verdict will be in.

Having an Axis bar that is slightly loose means it wiggles a little when the knife is closed. It still keeps the knife closed without issue and a slight push forward on the bar solves it. It really is that minor of an issue. I've only had one knife that did that, and only for a short while. It eventually went away on it's own. None of my other Axis locks, nor the ones my boys own, have done it.

Every big company -- including Kershaw -- has ones that slip through QC. The Leek that my son had was not worthy of the name Kershaw. The bevel was wavy, the liner moved almost all the way over from the start, and the tip was rounded! How that thing made it out of the factory is beyond me. If I based my opinion of Kershaw on the first one to enter this house, then I would think that the company produces nothing but crap. Or, considering the hundreds of thousands of knives they make every year, it's more likely that some slip through and the vast majority are quite good.

Thus definitely seems like something that should have been caught by quality control, isn't that where my money is going?

You are very correct. It should have been caught during QC. Benchmade applies loc-tite to the pivot, so that is why it felt like it broke free suddenly. A good test of whether the blade play is a QC or pivot adjustment issue is to tighten the pivot all the way down and see if there is any play. If there is, send the dang thing back under warranty, as that simply should not happen.

Blade fiend, my axis lock is indeed loose, but it was my looking into that when I discovered the blade play. You can see the blade off to one side because the blue spine outlines the center. You can jiggle the blade a decent amount when closed, even see the other side of the pivot screw jiggle the other way.

Is there any way you can take a video of this? I think I can picture what you're saying, but seeing it happen is much better. Just from what you're describing sounds to me like it needs to go back to Benchmade. My 940 doesn't wiggle at all when closed, let alone seeing the pivot screw jiggle (none of my Axis lock knives wiggle when closed). I wouldn't even bother with the store, as they may exchange it, but they might just put it back on the shelf, and someone else could end up with a bad first impression of Benchmade, all because of the same knife. Hopefully the dealer will send it back to Benchmade for credit, but you never know. Call Benchmade and explain that you need to send it back for warranty work. Mention that this is your first Benchmade and you are "appalled at the lack of quality control" and ask for a RMA to send it back on their dime. What you get back will be in tip-top shape.

 

[loonybin]

The store won't take it back w/o receipt (not a surprise) and its made me even more ticked. Enough that I'm definitely not going benchmade again.

Hold on. You don't like a store policy so you're blaming Benchmade? That doesn't make sense at all. Blame the store for that.

In the end I'll get a replacement in a few weeks and my mind will be made up about future purchases.

You will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Indoril]

I've owned a few Benchmades, and in my experience a couple of them needed a bit of a break in period to function perfectly. Try adjusting the pivot screw so that the blade is just barely unable to drop freely, then flicking it open 100 or so times, then readjusting, then open it some more, etc. If the problems still remain after that cycle then I would go to the retailer or Benchmade for help.

 

[bodog]

Or I can get a KAI or spyderco knife that is almost certain to come out of the box being a better value for the money without worrying about the issues with BM. To each their own, but when I've handled 5 benchmades, three straight from the manufacturer, and they all have significant problems, then I think I won't try them again. I was being nice when I said what I said about benchmade earlier because I don't want to sound like a jilted lover or something. The knives were crap, and two of them were supposed to be flagship models that have withstood the test of time. Very shoddy handles, crap lock ups on them all, blade play on them all, and bad ergonomics. Their D2 wore out quicker than than Kershaws sandvik, for God's sake.

All I'm saying is that for the price of a BM, people should receive more than they get. If they dropped the price down about 50%, then some of the problems would be acceptable, except then they'd be competing with the Kershaw Blur, and that's hard to do for the price.

The only thing they can offer that isn't matched or beat by another mass producer is N690 steel, but spyderco even beats that with H1.

I guess the bottom line for me is that BM needs to scale back production and focus on QC or they'll continue downward where companies like Kizer will be beating them left and right (and Kizer is prettt close right now).

 

[mrdabble]

I wasn't aware of the higher quality steel being offered by the ZT collab, extremely excited I am.

I don't know if it's just me, but Kai is trying to keep the higher quality stuff within ZT and they're simply dropping Kershaw to a value line? 10 years ago Kershaw was all over the map, some budget knives, some high end. I think they're trying to make a very distinct line between the two brands. If you want a high end KAI folder, look toward ZT. It is just a little disappointing to see the name Kershaw relegated to pretty much just chinese steel, though.

I feel the same way, especially since I am a heavy Kershaw users and the ZT line appeals to me much more because of steel quality. Its all about variety. I've been a Kershaw fan for a long time, even before I really got into blades. For them not to have a higher quality steel option is a bummer for sure.

This whole experience is just very lame. But hey! Maybe the griptillian will change everything when it comes next week. Black handle black blade 154cm, I intend on using it at the job site , going head to head with the normal s30v blur. We'll see!

 

[Krav]

I didn't read all post, but I would like to say that I had a mini grip and didn't care for it at all. Had absolutely nothing to do with BM, just wasn't my type. That being said I can not judge a company on 1 knife. There are several BM that I will try out when the time is right. Lots of different designs in good steels.

 

[fzla226]

All of my benchmades have a slight rattle to them but its not the blade at all its the not fully tightened axis lock. Hold the lock bar and shake to check. If the axis is a tad loose its not big deal it will not change the function.

As for the pivot itself being loose its takes some blue loctite and alot of fine tuning to get it perfect where its still smooth and flick-able yet tight and no play. Micro turns are key.

The rattle is actually the stop pin. If mine's not adjusted just right I'll get a slight rattle from that.

 

[fzla226]

I don't know if it's just me, but Kai is trying to keep the higher quality stuff within ZT and they're simply dropping Kershaw to a value line? 10 years ago Kershaw was all over the map, some budget knives, some high end. I think they're trying to make a very distinct line between the two brands. If you want a high end KAI folder, look toward ZT. It is just a little disappointing to see the name Kershaw relegated to pretty much just chinese steel, though.

Think it was said before that the models they put out that were in the $60-120 range didn't sell very well. That range is too ruled by Benchmade and Spyderco I guess.

 

[colubrid]

I didn't read every post but why doesn't the OP just send the knife into BM?Their customer care is unparalled in the knife business and will do him more than right.

 

[loonybin]

This whole experience is just very lame. But hey! Maybe the griptillian will change everything when it comes next week. Black handle black blade 154cm, I intend on using it at the job site , going head to head with the normal s30v blur. We'll see!

Comparing 154CM to s30v isn't exactly a fair comparison. That's like comparing a F-150 to a Mustang in a quarter-mile race. S30V has better edge retention properties than 154CM, and the slight recurve to the Blur's blade also enhances cutting, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Blur does better. I'm not a fan of recurves due to sharpening on the Edge Pro (I don't have any 1/2" stones) or Sharpmaker, but there's no question that the edge geometry of a recurve is superior for draw cuts. The new 15060 Grizzly Creek is probably the closest in size, blade shape, and steel to the Blur for a genuinely fair comparison.

 

[dsimmons]

I didn't read every post but why doesn't the OP just send the knife into BM?Their customer care is unparalled in the knife business and will do him more than right.

Because then he couldn't complain on the internet when Benchmade inevitably fixes the problem.

 

[Jeremy Barnard]

I've never had much luck with production blades (bench made especially). They're cheap because they're cheap.

 

[2 shot]

I have owned 14 Benchmades and everyone of them had zero problems, sharp and centered out of the box. My EDC for the last 2 years has been a M390 mini grip and it has been flawless.

 

[Stays Sharp]

I have owned 14 Benchmades and everyone of them had zero problems, sharp and centered out of the box. My EDC for the last 2 years has been a M390 mini grip and it has been flawless.

I've had a similar number of new BM's, none had any problems I cannot fix but more than half were either not sharp or not centered or both out of the box. You've been lucky or I've been unlucky. Centering is a little trickier for me to adjust out compared to other locks because with the Axis, I look for that sweet spot which makes it that much more difficult. I'd love an M390 mini Grip, those are quite rare. Passed on the M4 from GP because it was coated...Same with the coated M4 710, but highly prize my two M390 710's.

 

[Wolf1524]

I've never had much luck with production blades (bench made especially). They're cheap because they're cheap.

For me 810 Contego isn´t exactly what I would call cheap.