bad benchmade first impression

[Jeremy Barnard]

For me 810 Contego wasn´t exactly what I would call cheap.

Some think a $50 knife isn't exactly cheap. There is a reason some production knives run $400+.

 

[John Moran]

I lost track of how many times the term QC was used in this thread and others (please don't go back and count them for me). So there is something I might need to mention. The term and the practice of Quality Control was abandoned 30 years ago in modern manufacturing operations, because quality control and 100% final inspections lead to a 20% defect rate. Quality Control was replaced with Process Control, the idea being that if you do all of the steps right, the final part comes out right. (Check wikipedia if you want a detailed explanation of Statistical Process Control.)

I don't know anything about Bench Made and have never had any dealings with them, but as a modern manufacturing operation doing business in the USA their quality statistics should be audit able. It they are represented here, maybe they can provide some statistics.

John

 

[Scurvy092]

If there isn't quality control in place anymore: how do you explain blems/factory second sales?

 

[John Moran]

Scurvy092,
You missed the point. I did not say there was no quality system in place. I said they should have a system that is audit able. What they do with the parts that fall out of spec, sell them, scrap them or set them aside for rework, determines what kind of company they are.

I just looked at their site, they say they have a Quality Management System, based on ISO 9000-2008. If that is so, then they can and should provide statics about their defect rate. Otherwise all we hear about is the "bad ones" that people come here to complain about.

John

 

[RemyKaze]

I lost track of how many times the term QC was used in this thread and others (please don't go back and count them for me). So there is something I might need to mention. The term and the practice of Quality Control was abandoned 30 years ago in modern manufacturing operations, because quality control and 100% final inspections lead to a 20% defect rate. Quality Control was replaced with Process Control, the idea being that if you do all of the steps right, the final part comes out right. (Check wikipedia if you want a detailed explanation of Statistical Process Control.)

I don't know anything about Bench Made and have never had any dealings with them, but as a modern manufacturing operation doing business in the USA their quality statistics should be audit able. It they are represented here, maybe they can provide some statistics.

John

This is totally wrong. I'm involved with quality control at my workplace; that is what it is called, that is what it has been called at any place I have worked. Now, process control is something that is added on to ensure better quality, but QC is the filter that catches whatever does happen to make it through, as there is no such thing as a perfect process. No company just says "hey, let's forget about that safety net". Rather, many will integrate it into the process. Companies that have lots of small pieces and/or quantity being moved almost always have final inspectors though.

 

[uofaengr]

Again, as has been mentioned a hundred times in this thread, the tiniest of turns must be used when adjusting the pivot on BM's and finding the sweet spot.

To the OP, if you don't think the 943 will hold up to what you want to use it for...I'll gladly take it off your hands. I could use a 943 in the collection.

Quality control and process control are two entirely different things.

 

[John Moran]

RemyKaze, you might want to go back and look at the ISO standards.

 

[treeshaker]

Please, did the OP contact Benchmade and has the original Benchmade 943 been sent back to Benchmade for warranty ?

If so did Benchmade respond to your concerns when you contacted them ? What is the status of the original knife now ?
thank you very much

 

[dsimmons]

RemyKaze, you might want to go back and look at the ISO standards.

You might want to have a chat with every manufacturer I've ever heard of that has a person at the end of the line inspecting everything before it is shipped. What that person does is quality control. Sod the ISO.

 

[John Moran]

I'm having flashbacks to manufacturing in the 1970s.
dsimmons, all of those inspectors is the reason we are discussing defects reaching the end user.

 

[rajincagin]

Didn't Henry ford invent what we now know as our current manufacturing process?

 

[John Moran]

Didn't Henry ford invent what we now know as our current manufacturing process?

and Demming invented the modern quality process. Remember in the 70s and 80s when Japan was kicking our asses with top quality autos?

 

[rajincagin]

No, that was before my time, but I do remember my first Toyota pickup.

 

[treeshaker]

i was wondering what became of the original knife in question ? thanks

 

[RemyKaze]

I'm having flashbacks to manufacturing in the 1970s.
dsimmons, all of those inspectors is the reason we are discussing defects reaching the end user.

Whatever ISO says, quality control has not converted into "process control". There is no perfect process, and to rely on that alone is ludicrous. Companies have added that on to quality control as a way of reducing defects. In common sense terms, process control is called "preventive maintenance"; only took them a few decades to realize that such a thing saves manufacturers a lot of hassle. However, even brand new facilities/companies still use quality control; they relegate the checks over to the people who are involved in each step of the process even if they don't have a dedicated QC team. That could still be considered a part of process control as well, because quality checks are done continuously as products move toward finished goods. The two terms and theories work perfectly fine in conjunction.

To keep the thread on track, I too what like to hear what the OP has done. I have never had quality issues on a Benchmade I've owned. Granted, I've only had about four, two of which are/were a Ritter and Ritter Mini which both came perfect. The other two were a Contego and an old 555 with the oval hole. They were also in awesome shape.

I feel like every company has quality issues from time to time, no matter how well tuned their process. Machines require adjustments, workers get sick or tired or zone out from repetitive actions and miss something. This is not poor work or business ethics; this sort of thing is commonplace because people aren't perfect and yes, they will sometimes inadvertently let things slip past. That is what the awesome warranties are for, to cover your arse and theirs. I really suggest giving them another shot.

Sorry guys, I'm long winded. :foot:

 

[jfalkos]

Whatever ISO says, quality control has not converted into "process control". There is no perfect process, and to rely on that alone is ludicrous. Companies have added that on to quality control as a way of reducing defects. In common sense terms, process control is called "preventive maintenance"; only took them a few decades to realize that such a thing saves manufacturers a lot of hassle. However, even brand new facilities/companies still use quality control; they relegate the checks over to the people who are involved in each step of the process even if they don't have a dedicated QC team. That could still be considered a part of process control as well, because quality checks are done continuously as products move toward finished goods. The two terms and theories work perfectly fine in conjunction.

To keep the thread on track, I too what like to hear what the OP has done. I have never had quality issues on a Benchmade I've owned. Granted, I've only had about four, two of which are/were a Ritter and Ritter Mini which both came perfect. The other two were a Contego and an old 555 with the oval hole. They were also in awesome shape.

I feel like every company has quality issues from time to time, no matter how well tuned their process. Machines require adjustments, workers get sick or tired or zone out from repetitive actions and miss something. This is not poor work or business ethics; this sort of thing is commonplace because people aren't perfect and yes, they will sometimes inadvertently let things slip past. That is what the awesome warranties are for, to cover your arse and theirs. I really suggest giving them another shot.

Sorry guys, I'm long winded. :foot:

So basically you tell him he is utterly wrong and then go on to defeat your own argument? Classic. I really don't see why you need to waste all of our time arguing about what a certain manufacturer calls their inspection process. The point is that Benchmade is hopefully checking every step of the process, and if they aren't, they should be. You seem to be arguing that a final inspection is all that counts, but is that really all that you want? If you bought a new car would you like it if ONE person checked every single component? No. I see where you are coming from but it seems like you're arguing against what the knife community needs. Anyways, here's hoping that Benchmade ramps up their quality. Especially since they're ramping up their prices.

 

[RemyKaze]

So basically you tell him he is utterly wrong and then go on to defeat your own argument? Classic. I really don't see why you need to waste all of our time arguing about what a certain manufacturer calls their inspection process. The point is that Benchmade is hopefully checking every step of the process, and if they aren't, they should be. You seem to be arguing that a final inspection is all that counts, but is that really all that you want? If you bought a new car would you like it if ONE person checked every single component? No. I see where you are coming from but it seems like you're arguing against what the knife community needs. Anyways, here's hoping that Benchmade ramps up their quality. Especially since they're ramping up their prices.

Wait what? No no no, I must have said something wrong for you to infer that. John is saying that "doing all the steps right" negates quality control. QC doesn't mean one person checking parts before they are shipped. It is the entire company checking parts as the process is going on. Process control = a smoother, better tuned process to prevent more of the defects from ever happening. Quality control = people and guidelines making sure that the process is doing what it is supposed to, and making sure none fall through the cracks. The two go together, and one alone is not as efficient. For example, where I work, operators do their own quality checks while they and maintenance tune the machines based on the specs of these checks that are required every two hours. The parts then go to a final inspection before hitting finished goods. The process is being controlled by the checks and by centerline specs, to achieve desired quality.

I can't say what kind of process Benchmade has, but I guarantee that every person working on those knives is expected to look for defects regardless of how the process is run. And I'm willing to bet they have plenty of audits along with inventory, but they're not going to release that information to the public.

I'd like to add that while I can see why Spyderco had some issues there, grinding out as many PM2's as they could to meet demand, I don't see why Benchmade would be having quality issues. Sometimes it seems like some of their actions make no sense. The MAP pricing thing is a good example. Does that really affect them so much as it affects the business of the dealers who buy their knives in bulk and use the lower prices to help move inventory? Like I said, I've never received a Benchmade with issues, but if enough people are complaining I agree they should step up their game a bit.

 

[Quiet]

did you first clean the knife ?? did you lube, a good knife requires a break in period, any of them. Sometimes the best take the longest. As for quality, Benchmade is the best, under $200 knife made, period. I own every brand, and they will make it right. Not calling B/S but if what you say is true, call Benchmade at website number and they will actually answer and not only contact dealer, but get your knife right. Do not post here next month about how the blade is not sharp, send it back to benchmade free, you pay postage, wear out a blade or break one, $12 for new one at Benchmade. Just never send an auto Benchmade back. Finally before posting here, I would read the warrenty, the call is free. Unless you work for another brand ?
They are coming out with a new line this year, looks,feels and works like old LoneWolves. Also I searched 40 plus reviews on several sites 90% 5 others 4 , regarding factory sharpness. What store treated you this way ? You pay cash, or credit card. Did you address the store manager ?

Please stop stating your opinions in the form of factual statements. It confuses people who don't know better. Thanks. Benchmade isn't the best, at all. Sorry.

 

[stabman]

Please stop stating your opinions in the form of factual statements. It confuses people who don't know better. Thanks. Benchmade isn't the best, at all. Sorry.

Now you're stating an opinion as fact.
Pot, meet the kettle...

Personally I've found Benchmade to be generally on par with Spyderco, which is on par with the other manufacturers at that price point.
Sometimes really awesome, sometimes okay.
I've never gotten junk from them.

 

[Quiet]

Now you're stating an opinion as fact.
Pot, meet the kettle...

Personally I've found Benchmade to be generally on par with Spyderco, which is on par with the other manufacturers at that price point.
Sometimes really awesome, sometimes okay.
I've never gotten junk from them.

I don't think so, at all. For one thing, what objectively can you (or Tanto, who apparently works for Benchmade) state that Benchmade is the best at? Grinds*? We all know that's not true. Spyderco and Kershaw are both having a chuckle at that right now. Fit and finish? Again, no. Ergonomics? The best? How could one even qualify that statement? It's going to be different for everyone

So, no, objectively Benchmades AREN'T the best for under $200 (or over it for that matter). That would be a factual statement. I don't know who could take that title, but I know it's not Benchmade.


*I've had to reprofile two of the four I own. Edit: misspoke, of the FIVE I own, sorry.